Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

Glitter - you said that it has never been a multi-use space, that's just how it's perceived.

I'm not disagreeing that it is a wheelchair space, but when the bus driver has floor space for one buggy and takes two on, he knows that the other one is in that wheelchair space, so most bus company's policies do regard it as a multi-use space. They either have to decide that it needs to be kept clear at all times, or they have to accept that sometimes the driver is going to have to stand up and say 'Oi, you need to move luv!'.

It might not even be because some precious mum type is being inconsiderate, it might just be because they've fallen asleep/got their head in the buggy/don't speak English.

Based on the list in the original op I was saying I would rather be offered a new ticket thing to get another bus.

I could ask for help but unless there was storage I can't fold anyway as chair has to come off base do would need passengers to hold these for me and as well as dissemble and reassemble when off bus iyswim.

In reference to dawndonna I said in my first post I had not read whole thread so I obviously missed something sorry guys will go back and read.

Ikwym Panda, but unless like my children they have ASD AND use wheelchairs they don't need to sit in the wheelchair (not multiuse) space.

Absolutely. My comment was about the general assumption that we can sit anywhere, not about the wheelchair space in any way shape or form. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

By the way, we are rural and it's a 20 minute walk/push to the bus stop. So it's not actually that easy an option to just go home.

Wheelchair takes precedence over a buggy and if you travel on buses with a buggy that doesnt fold down - well that wasnt a great purchase was it.

Thanks maryz and dawndonna I knew I had missed something

I'm not saying you and in you fairyjen just IME on my local buses wheelchairs aside for a minute priorioty amongst buggys seems based on age of child, and ignores whether older child in mac major or similar is disabled or not. Although how someone can look at a 6yo in a buggy and not have a small idea that that may be SN is the bane of my life
Although alot of my local buses have a wheelchair space side and a buggy space side. And I avoid buses wherever possible.

I get you frustrated

How on earth does it take 700 plus posts to discuss the bloody obvious i.e wheelchair spaces are intended for the use of wheelchair users,I'm including SN buggies in this,which are effectively wheelchairs, and therefore they have priority at all times over buggy users? Seriously?

I'm including SN buggies in this,which are effectively wheelchairs, and therefore they have priority at all times over buggy users?
in theory bananabubbles in practice

It is very clear to see that someone in a wheelchair has extra needs, you cannot normally tell just by looking at someone who isn't in a wheelchair what their needs might be which is why it isn't sensible to unnecessarily completely exclude another group of people who unarguably are likely to also have extra needs. There is no need for this to be the plan and it does little about asserting the right to a wheelchair space it simply attacks people with prams immaterial of whether they also have disability or other problems. The wheelchair space should be a dedicated space and there should also be a pram space if too many wheelchairs/prams need to get on then those people will have to wait, that will happen occasionally but at least everyone would have a reasonable chance of using buses to travel.

Well they bloody ought to have priority.It's not really something that should be up for debate.

That isn't the debate. The debate is about the way in which wheelchairs should have priority and the nature of disability and also other needs and how those can be balanced.

Everyone can travel if people fold their buggy and get out of the wheelchair space when it is needed.

I just went to look up Arriva's policy - it basically says that their buses have dedicated wheelchair spaces, they do have stickers that explain that they are for wheelchair users as a priority and other passengers should move so wheelchairs can board, but they won't force non-wheelchair users to vacate the space if they refuse to.

They should be doing that, which is why they are being sued.

No Offred.
That's the debate you are having.
Everyone else is just repeating that wheelchair spaces are for wheelchairs. And that cows are essentially evil.

It uses the phrase "dedicated wheelchair and scooter space" for all your huffing and puffing that it doesn't offred.

I fear pag that this will only happen of drivers actually enforce it. I think if left to human nature as such the situation will continue as it is

Yes. It would be nice if people just did the right thing FairyJen.
But people would rather tie themselves in knots justifying why it is oh so complicated. Ah well.

I thought we were discussing the wheelchair space specifically. That would the be the space on the bus intended for wheelchairs and therefore for wheelchair users.

The needs of other bus users seems like a topic for a different thread.

It's not gonna happen IMHO the pram users will be out in force to complain and let's face it they will not redesign/make new buses to accommodate both. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the bus company won and things stayed as they are

What a bunch of whining pansies on this thread. 3 years ago this city, large one, didnt have any low floor/accessible buses. The mothers just sighed and folded then climbed up the steps with shopping/buggy/baby etc. A total pain in the arse I know (I had 4 under 5 at one point in a small rural town years before access' was even a word. Still caught buses though)
Then First bus re-did the whole fleet and now 99% of the buses are accessible with a dedicated wheelchair space. Suddenly none of the parents appear to be able to fold and abuse wheelchair users, refuse to move, claim their baby is asleep or will combust or any excuse as to why they cant fold the stupid behemoth they bought.

Its like a new disease. Maybe someone ought to be told?
I'd have a big sign 'If you arent disabled and want to hog the wheelchair space I will happily break your spine'. And see how many take it up...

I have to say that it does 100% explain why everytime someone in a wheelchair has been using the same bus as me they have been waiting at the stop really early. I just assumed they were really organised at the time, but now I wonder how many buses had gone without them!