Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

*disablist

"more tolerant and compassionate towards others"

Unless they can't fold their pushchair?

Glitter I'm not trying to have a fight here, but I think it is factually accurate to say that in most areas of the country the wheelchair space is used by multiple other users. That's absolutely not to say they all have equal rights to it.

Everyone, Jen.

If you can't fold it, you can ask for help. Try folding a wheelchair.

Tis a wheelchair space unless one is trying to make a spurious, hair splitting point.

Other passengers were permitted to use it simply to prevent the nonsense of an empty space on a crowded bus.
But that common sense decision is used by the small minded to try and diminish its primary purpose in order to permit the selfish and the entitled.

If you can't gold your pushchair ask someone to help you. I have helped other passengers to fold pushchairs when they were struggling.

It is a dedicated wheelchair space as a result of a parliamentary act in 1995 to improve accessibility for disabled people.

The fact it has been abused by precious parents with prams does not alter that daft.

To be honest as long as a wheelchair user isn't put out I couldn't care less if fifty bleedin' prams use it, but when situations like what happened to DawnDonna's DD occur it boils my piss.

I've folded several wheelchairs in the past. At this point in time I would struggle to fold up the metro!

Twelvelegged eh?

Genuine question but I dunno what happened with dawndonnas dd so I can't comment.

fairyjen just for you Unless they can't fold their pushchair? it'll take your cant fold and raise you a refusal to fold because you have a newborn

Surely with ASD you can use a standard seat anywhere?

If you're lucky - some people with autism freak out if they're not by an aisle, near a door or feel hemmed in. Just because we don't need wheelchair spaces doesn't mean we don't need awareness.

Many people with autism find excessive noise difficult but other passengers don't suddenly quieten down when someone with the condition gets on the bus in the same way that they would move out of the way to let a wheelchair user into their designated space.

A local man with autism got thrown off a bus a few years ago for not understanding something the driver said. When he explained that he had autism the driver and fellow passengers jeered him and told him to pull himself together (which just confused the poor man further). As far as I know the driver was not disciplined for this but I doubt he'd have got away with treating a wheelchair user in a similar manner.

I (on the autistic spectrum myself) was suspected of being anti disability for saying that a wheelchair user had been making a nuisance of himself. He was a student at the college where I used to work and had been yelling insults at staff, bad mouthing them to other students etc.

It really makes me quite angry that some people choose to say they "can't" do things when really they are just inconvenient or require them acting like an adult and asking for help. That is not what can't means. Most if not all wheelchairs really can't be folded when in use. Pushchairs can.

On London buses, in the wheelchair space it says the following (can't remember the exact wording, but basically says) 'space can be used for buggies and prams, however if a wheel chair user needs the space, you will be asked to fold your prams to make space, as they have priority.'

you can't fold a powered chair, and a lot of people in wheelchairs can't actually walk......that is why they are in wheelchairs ffs

frustrated I don't have a newborn

I know it can be difficult for people with invisible disabilities and that's pretty shit. but that's not what the thread is about.

Page 13. Fairyjen.

FairyJen
What is it you want to know about dawndonnas DD tht isn't on the thread?

With clear signs, bus drivers who actually enforce the rules, and people not being total idiots, there should not even be a problem.

But Jen, the point is you can ask for help. Would you expect someone in a wheelchair to ask another passenger to lift them into a seat, fold their wheelchair up just so you don't have the inconvenience of having to fold your cumbersome pram?

I'm very aware of the issues individuals who have autism face on public transport.

Which is why for now we have a motability car, until the govt cut that (as well as the four and a half grand a year they've already decided to take from us but that's another mater).

Really though this thread is about the wheelchair space and whether or not wheelchair users should have priority to it as intended.

My point is that unless they are wheelchair users who have ASD there is no requirement to use a wheelchair for 'just' ASD (not minimising ASD as a disability).

why do people keep talking about folding?
most people I have seen in wheelchairs on buses, have been in powered ones with a seating system.
how the hell would you fold that up, and even if you could who is going to lift the person?? then hold them? keep them safe??

Matter

Wheelchair bay

FFS autocorrect!