Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

The space is dedicated now, doesn't stop people using it though

Buses already have a wheelchair space.

People wanting spaces for prams should campaign for that.

No it is a multi use space in which wheelchair users have priority followed by those with mobility problems who can use the fold down seats. Possible in some places it will also allow prams if there is not pram space.

No it isn't.

Also it has hand hooks for people to stand in it when the bus is busy... It is quite far from a dedicated space and that is why other people use it for standing, luggage, prams, sitting etc

On arriva buses it is.

In Coventry the space had a sticker which said was for use of pans and wheelchairs ( can't remember exact wording ) however there was no clear message that wheelchairs had priority over that space

It's not a multi-use space on any bus I've been on. They all say it is the wheelchair space, but if there aren't wheelchairs you are allowed to use it - so you could stand in it, or perch on the fold down seat, or put a buggy there. But it is for wheelchairs and is adapted to be the right size and shape for them.

Sorry manicbmc I agree that they don't need the wheelchair space unless of course there are associated mobility issues. (Inability to walk, Refusal to walk, "diminished responsibity", or for their own safety included in associated mobility issues)

I think often if people can't see the disability that is the root of the mobility issue then people are less aware that there is a disability there.

Prams not pans obviously

It's a wheelchair space. It's even referred to such in the solicitor's email in the OP.

And every other bus company here it is multiuse with priority for wheelchairs too.

So essentially the problem is that people are unable to understand that it is a space primarily for wheelchair users, and that they must move, and bus drivers are incapable/unwilling to enforce these rules? And the solution is not to make this very clear to other bus users and to train bus drivers, it is to try and convince bus companies to modify all their buses so that there is a space for prams AND a space for wheelchairs?

And you don't think that the result might just be that people use the pram spaces AND the wheelchair space for prams, and no one bothers to enforce it and we end up in exactly the same situation but with MORE prams on board and wheelchair users still not being able to get on the bloody buses?

It would actually be very easy for the bus companies to put a small barrier across the wheelchair space, which the driver unlocks when he/she lowers the suspension/puts the ramp out/whatever he needs to do to make the bus wheelchair accessible.

They don't do that because they want the ticket revenue from the parents with prams who occupy that space all the rest of the time. I think bus companies have to accept that they either reserve the space for the exclusive use of wheelchairs, or if they're going to take the revenue from it as a multi-use space, they also need to take some responsibility for regulating its use.

It is not and has never been a multi use space. In your perception perhaps, doesn't make it fact.

Its a wheelchair space and yes it has hand rails and the loops that hang down from the ceiling for standing passengers but they can only use the space if a wheelchair user does not need it and then at the discretion of the bus company.

It's odd that it's called the wheelchair space then. I wonder why that is? Why, why would that be....

(assuming that Joe Public can't be educated and relied on to behave responsibly of course)

Surely with ASD you can use a standard seat anywhere?

Depends on the person. I won't sit anywhere (bus, restuarant, cinema, whatever) unless my back is against a wall. Absolutely cannot tolerate people being behind me. My daughter on the other hand always positions herself as close to the driver as possible/allowed (even if that means standing) because she panics if she can't see where she's going plus she feels safer when travelling alone. My nephew doesn't care so long as he doesn't have to walk.

Yes that is why it is a multiuse (used by others with priority for wheelchairs) not a dedicated (reserved only for the use of wheelchairs) space.

It all boils down to being a bit more tolerant and compassionate towards others. It would be a start then none of this would be a problem.

Yes it is a wheelchair space but it is not a dedicated wheelchair space... I'm being really disabling aren't I in my calling for dedicated wheelchair spaces(!)

Ikwym Panda, but unless like my children they have ASD AND use wheelchairs they don't need to sit in the wheelchair (not multiuse) space.