Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

I disagree with the earlier poster who said that mac majors were recognised for what they are. I have had filthy looks from some old people and some parents with smaller babies/larger buggys because I refuse to fold. Dc is disabled and I inform every bus driver when I get on the bus.

DH used to have a nightmare when dc was younger he is also disabled as a mac major is only available/suitable after dc is a certain size.

IME the problems we've experienced aren't from the drivers or the bus companies, but the other passengers.

In that case, maybe we do need a blue badge system for the hordes of disabled mothers who can't fold their humungous pushchairs, but can still manage to push them.

This is what I don't understand. I am disabled and normally use a walking frame. I'm also expecting and have been looking into prams. I don't get how these women manage these monsters. I was in the baby shop yesterday trying them out. I can't even tip most of them to get them up a low kerb, let alone get them up onto a bus or into the boot of the car.

Nice see the disablist, entitled mindset is in the minority.

No, disabled people shouldn't have to 'just go home' because of the way you have planned your family. Is it their fault you have twins plus toddlers?

No, they shouldn't have to pre-book spaces. If that became the case I'd expect everyone to have to do it - disability by its very nature means that the level of upheaval in your life is significant already, why should more barriers be placed upon you?

Already if you want to travel by rail in a wheelchair you often have to give 24 hours' notice. Of course disabled people never want to do anything last minute or spontaneous. Or have emergencies to travel for. Oh no...

If you read I am not saying people in wheelchairs should have to go home, I am saying they can go home rather than get hypothermia unlike someone who gets chucked off the bus in the middle of nowhere with small children. It wouldn't happen if there were dedicated wheelchair spaces and a multi use pram space. In that case I see a wheelchair user going home or making other arrangements as a leases evil than kicking someone off the bus in the middle of nowhere with no idea what their needs are.

Why does everyone seem to think that wheelchair users should have rights over other disabled people anyway? Do you know how difficult it is for some people with autism to use public transport for example?

I haven't taken my autistic lad on a bus since he was 7. Too much overload for him. And an autistic person would have no need to use a wheelchair space.

why should a wheelchair user have to book a space??
really?

Surely with ASD you can use a standard seat anywhere?
Unless you're like my DS and DD and have ASD, ADHD AND use a wheelchair that is.

True that, Glitter. Autism aside though, it's the wheelchair bit that takes priority.

Surely it's not about wheelchair users having rights over other people with disabilities generally. Just when it comes to use of the wheelchair space. Because use of that space is the only way they can use a bus. I do know how difficult many aspects of daily life can be for people with autism, but I am not seeing how an equal right to use the wheelchair space on a bus would help them.

But someone with hidden disabilities could sit on a seat? The only possible place a wheelchair can go is in the wheelchair space. They don't get general priority over space on a bus, but they get priority over the one place they can fit. IF that means people have to move their rugby team/piano/suitcase/zombie cow/pram or whatever, or even take those items off the bus, then that's just tough titties.

If non-wheelchair users want better access to public transport, then they all need to get off their collective arses and do something about it. Less moaning, more doing and you might actually make some changes.

In the meantime, bus companies should be telling people who has what priority over a wheelchair space, and enforcing it. I might get pissed off with being late for work if a bus has to stop while someone argues the toss about whether they are more in need of a wheelchair space than a person in a wheelchair, but that's the nature of public transport - you have to deal with the public. And some of them are utter tossers.

And an autistic person would have no need to use a wheelchair space. because all autistic people/children can walk.

I believe that Stagecoach up this way has a policy where (if you are a wheelchair user) if there is no space because there's already a wheelchair on the bus, you can call a free phone number and they will provide a taxi.

Frustrated, I didn't mean that and I think it's pretty clear. Of course people with autism might need a wheelchair. And also children with autism often need to use major buggies for their own safety.

Proud my son is severely autistic (teenager, non-verbal). I avoid bus travel with him (he loves it) because he is loud upsetting the tut tut brigade and I struggle to get him OFF the sodding bus, but he can do it without needing a wheelchair space. Some of his friends who are mobile need wheelchairs when out and about because of the way their autism affects them and they would be able to use the wheelchair space because they'd be in a wheelchair.,

No one is arguing for an equal right to the disabled space. I am saying wheelchairs should have a dedicated (rather than the current multiuse) space and it should be illegal to block it with anything and that in order to do this in practice a bus company has to make a pram space and a luggage rack otherwise bus drivers will let the wheelchair space be blocked.

Err yes. Pretty good idea how difficult it is to take a person with asd on public transport.
Child with asd and tiny baby was challenging but I did it because I am a super hero [fact]

Offred, the space is dedicated for wheelchairs. Buggies are allowed to use it at the bus company's discretion.

Rosie - because people live in the middle of nowhere, where there are no shops etc but houses, clearly,have you never been outside a town?

It's not currently a multiuse space. It's a wheelchair space.