Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

I cannot stand on a moving bus due to back problems (which I did not choose to have) and nobody seems to want to offer their seat to a thirty something female who isn't pregnant.

If the wheelchair space is the only place where I can sit then I will do so. I would vacate the space if a wheelchair user needed it but only if someone was prepared to let me sit elsewhere. I am not prepared to aggravate my back problem just because I look able to stand

I can't afford it at the moment no. The pram is noti mine to sell technically so that's out. I have an oyster card with money on it when that runs out there will be no trips for a while until finances improve

I imagine that most people think they have genuine reasons for not folding. Can you sit down with your baby in your lap? If so then you can do that and get help from someone on the bus to get your pram folded and you sat down. It's a pain in the arse but it wont last forever.

You should campaign for that then Fairy. I think Offred is planning to start one. You could work on it together.

In the meantime, wheelchair spaces are for those with disabilities.

Proud - if there was no where else to sit, would you honestly stay seated in a wheelchair space at the expense of someone in a wheelchair not being able to get on the bus?

If so, I am all out of polite words.

Firstly we didn't choose or buy the pram it was a gift. Cannot afford to buy a smaller cheap pram at the moment and we were not aware I would need an emcs which has left complications. At this moment in time ds is too heavy for me to hold for a significant period of time.

Here you go. 5 minutes on google and I found you a lightweight, easily foldable, not requiring any extra space to store buggy for £17.95 (new). Or £6.50 on ebay

It is a genuine reason thank you. I have mobility issues and need further surgery and do not physically have the strength to hold my son properly or safely. Do you need a drs note?

To all the people who absolutely CANNOT fold their prams when required may I ask?

• how you get it onto the bus in the first place?
• how you carry your buggy up steps? Presumably you come across steps and obstacles outside the bus?
• how you get it into a car/plane/boat/train when needed?

I have seen people try and get a Quinny buzz on a bus. Why?! It's ridiculous - it can barely fit down the aisles. They are designed for people who go on long country walks, live in hilly areas and have massive cars. If you go on a bus, you need a light foldable pram. They are £15 from Argos or Freecycle usually has one.

I am not being unsympathetic to your CS btw, but I am mystified why someone with mobility issues has such a mahoosive, wide and heavy pram.

I would even go further and say that buggies/prams are a luxury, not a necessity, if you have one baby and no mobility issues (CS recovery being one of them). Prams are for the mother's convenience, not the baby. I have travelled London to Scotland and around and back on public transport with a 9 month old in a sling.

I'm not disputing about wheelchair spaces at all I'm mearly saying that not everyone is able to fold a pram. Have no problem with getting off etc I'm just saying can there not be room for both?

No, but you need to be using a wheelchair to get priority over another wheelchair when you want to use a wheelchair space.

Not sure if it's possible to use the word wheelchair any more times in that sentence.

ProudAS

I wouldn't offer you my seat because I wouldn't imagine you needed it. But if you ask me you can certainly have it. I would imagine I am not alone in that.

Thats a good point Lily

I have mobility issues and there are a lot of prams I couldn't use because they are to heavy to push. A lightweight buggy is much easier!

If I was unable to fold the buggy (which some days I am) I would ask someone else to do it for me. I doubt many people can't manage to sit on a seat and hold their young child on their knee.

lily we were given the pram. If I go anywhere with steps etc dp handles the pram having said that it's rare I go anywhere with stairs etc

Given how much of a trauma people seem to find coping with getting on a bus with children, you wonder how they cope with actually difficult situations. I know it's not easy, hell I even avoid buses wherever I can because it is a massive pain, but if you come at every single problem you encounter with that kind of attitude, it's a wonder you manage to survive.

^Proud - if there was no where else to sit, would you honestly stay seated in a wheelchair space at the expense of someone in a wheelchair not being able to get on the bus?

If so, I am all out of polite words.
^

So what would you do EasilyBored? Spend a fortnight in hospital and six weeks laid up with crippling back pain because of standing on a bus?

I'm sick of having my disabilities overlooked just because they are less visible than some other people's!!!

Sorry I cross-posted and now know why Fairy has a big pram.
You can get a folding buggy on freecycle and in charity shops.

I would ask someone for a seat, like pretty much everyone on this thread I would gladly give you my seat if you asked. I would be very shocked if on a whole bus full of people there wasn't one person who would give up a seat to someone who needed it. There are often specific seats for people who take priority (pregnant, less able to stand etc) as well as space for a wheelchair (in fact that is the case on every bit of public transport I've used). Those seats are for you and I would get very pissy if someone didn't let you sit down, but the wheelchair space is for a wheelchair. That's the bottom line.

I have to say I agree with Mary.

While I understand your problems proud, you are capable of asking someone for a seat are you not?

There are usually priority seats near the front of the bus (or near the doors on a train) specifically intended for people who are 'less able to stand'.

That's what I'd do too Maryz and I hope someone would oblige.

When a bus is too full I (a disabled person myself) don't get on.

I wonder where the op went

Maybe she is at work?