Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

It is easy to prioritise wheelchairs of there is a dedicated wheelchair space. I don't know why they aren't asking for that? Arriva north east clearly know what arriva in the north west are doing successfully to prevent disabled people being denied access to the bus.

And in the meantime, while you are campaigning for modifications to the bus fleet, perhaps people with buggies and no complications/disabilities can just old them up?

There already is a dedicated wheelchair space!! The issue then is that there isn't a dedicated pushchair space, and some parents are clearly taking the piss.

They already have that offread they are asking for it to be enforced.

I lost my f-ing f again.

But buses DO have dedicated wheelchair spaces which selfish people inisist on using their prams in. THAT is what the whole thread has been about

(do we have a bangs head on wall smiley?)

Easily - have you read anything I've said, we already have it, it works, old buses have been modified, disabled people are given priority in their disabled space, we have had the hike in fares to enable arriva to not use their profit.

Firstly we didn't choose or buy the pram it was a gift. Cannot afford to buy a smaller cheap pram at the moment and we were not aware I would need an emcs which has left complications. At this moment in time ds is too heavy for me to hold for a significant period of time.

In most cases of course the buggy should be folded but do bear in mind that there may be a good reason why not.

Suppose for example that a child is mobile but SN. It may not be possible for parent to give that child the attention they need AND remove younger siblings from buggy. Then there's the case of the parent who has a disability which makes removing child from buggy extremely difficult or impractical.

The disability discrimination act applies to ALL disabled people, not just the 5% who use wheelchairs.

It is easy to prioritise wheelchairs of there is a dedicated wheelchair space. I don't know why they aren't asking for that?

Because there already is a dedicated wheelchair space FFS. The problem is the squatters who refuse to get out of it.

No, it is this proposal which does that Mary, what I am saying is it isn't an either or choice... Jeez...

Then if a wheelchair needs the wheelchair space you have to get off the bus.

And it is only the right of a parent to have a pushchair that won't fold, that would only be the comparison if it were true that folding were always possible or having pushchairs that fold were always possible.

Sadly light buggies aren't always the answer. I have a large off-road pram because I have DTs in a rural area. Ironically the only way of getting TO the city by public transport involves walking from home, so that means using the double off-roader. If I drive, I could take a crappy umbrella fold, but I couldn't actually get to the bus stop with it. It's one of many reasons I hardly ever use public transport.
Given that I'll be using a double anyway, so may well have to get off or not be allowed on any public transport, I tend to use my off-roader so I know that I can always get off and push even if on roads with no pavements. It is, admittedly, a right pain in the arse, but it's my pain in the arse so I just get out of everyone's way.
Style statement it is not so please don't assume all 'monster buggy' users are inconsiderate image conscious caaaahhs .

Fairy, sell your pushchair and buy a 2nd hand or cheap umbrella fold to replace, at 7moths your baby doesn't need anything fancy and you need a folding pushchair. Or to not use the bus.

You can get fold up buggies for £20 in Argos.

So this proposal can go ahead alongside another that makes buses have a dedicated space for prams as well? The two are not mutually exclusive. Lets kick parents out of wheelchair spaces (quite rightly so) first, and then maybe move on to having generally more family friendly buses. Because unless you do something to change attitudes about where prams can go, all you are going to end up with is a pram space AND a wheelchair space, that are both being used by pram users.

fairygen you can get a folding umbrella pushchair suitable for a 7 month old for 18 quid from argos.

Are you sure you cannot afford this? How do you pay for the bus if you really can't?

I have genuine reasons for not folding. I'm sure others do but how are drivers supposed to know who is being truthful?

There ate dedicated wheelchair spaces and I think there should also be dedicated pushchair spaces for those who really cannot fold

Fairy, you may have genuine reasons for not folding, but unless one of those reasons is that your DC is disabled, and you were in the wheelchair space, then you would need to get off the bus.

I'm sorry you have problems with that. But it would still be an idea even if you can't fold it as they are smaller. Those quinny things are monsters and take up so much space.

unless you have more reasons for not folding than you have already given then you do NOT have a genuine reason....