Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

Easilybored - if you are at the stop closest to your home you have the option of returning there.

A child in a raincoat is only going to be standing in a field if their parent won't fold the buggy up.
Why would you not just fold the buggy up rather than risk hypothermia or possibly a cow attack?

Yes, because if it was the start of their journey they could go home! They would know where they were! Totally different than being randomly kicked off the bus! That's the whole point!

Yes holeygoast. I grew up in rural areas, I live in a rural area. Which is why I said properly wrapped up and with a decent rain cover. The mother will get wet, but babe won't be risking hypothermia

however my DS getting wet sitting in his wheelchair waiting for an accessible space would be at risk of pneumonia

The people going to hospital though live in a town, they don't live in a rural area. They are travelling through a rural area to get to a town to go to hospital.

Snort at cow attack - and precisely. Of it's such a risk fold the bloody buggy.

You're all heart offred 'they can go home' ??? What just because some princess won't fold their buggy.

These threads always make me realise how fucking awesome I am.
I bought a sling and a fold up buggy and commuted into the city for two years.
I am like a super hero or something.

Well they still have the option of folding the buggy offred if waiting in a rural area is so very dangerous.

If a disabled ds was in a pushchair they'd still be kicked off the bus under this proposal which only takes account of wheelchair users.

But a fair amount of mothers must be entitled idiots if this is a recurrent problem for a lot of wheelchair users? No?

Of course not all parents are entitled tossers, but the ones who are are the ones meaning that we have this problem.

Well a parent cant expect a space on a bus just because THEY havent thought to plan and take warm.clothes/blankets for a child in a pushchair. Thats their own fault, if they want to get on the bus and there isnt space for the pushchair tgen they fold it. If they choose not to fold it then that us their choice, they cant then moan about their child being cold because they didnt dress it appropriately for the weather.

Not necessarily easily, how do you know what choices the mothers were making or what information they were given, whether their children had SN but just happened to be in a pushchair? The person I know who gets the bus most often has four dc, two are severely developmentally delayed, one mildly and the fourth is a baby, you couldn't tell that by looking at them in a pram.

I think people upthread have suggested that buggys or children with disability /SN should be included in those eligible to use the wheelchair space and others have suggested blue badge holders should be too.

But it's good to see that you are seeking to prioritise those with disabilities rather than those emotionally scarred by the prospect of folding their buggy.

I'm sure bus drivers & passengers (with a bit if common sense) could make an exception for a disabled child if their disability precluded the folding of a buggy.

Rules wouldn't be needed if people actually had the brains to realise that being the parent if young children isn't a disability. Except in their heads.

5mad - I'm talking about the proposal to kick families off the bus. It isn't just weather but the roads that would be a safety problem as well as not knowing where you are.

It's a huge problem and it is about 'entitled tossers' as EasilyBored so beautifully puts it. The same kind of people who put their bags on seats in train carriages whilst people are standing.

How do you tell the difference between a child with disabilities in a pushchair, it isn't easy to see.

Well, if you have to get off a bus because you can't wrangle all your children and a folded pram, and aren't willing to demand help then sorry, but I have limited sympathy for any resulting cow attacks. I would also suggest that you a) don't have any more children until you can manage this and b) buy a cattle prod.

FFS. I don't think anyone on this thread agrees the first suggestion, but 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 are all perfectly reasonable.

the child will be entitled to a blue badge, thats how you tell.

Yes, it is entitled tossers but it is also the bus company not providing the right facilities.

You have to apply for a blue badge and not everyone does.