To be unsympathetic with pregnant friend

[creamteas]

Two people I know were in an on-off relationship which neither took very seriously. Last year, due to contraception failure, she became pregnant. From the beginning, he made it clear he was not interested in being a father and offered her money and support through an abortion. She decided she wanted the baby, and at which point he stated that he wanted nothing to do which the future child and ended all contact with her. This was at about 6 weeks in and she is now 36 weeks pregnant.

Throughout the pregnancy she has sent him constant updates and invitations to scans etc all of which have gone unanswered. She was still assuming he would change his mind, when this week she heard the news that he is moving abroad just after New Year.

She is now apparently devastated and wondering how she will cope. Yet it was her decision to continue with the pregnancy and she did so knowing that he had no intention of being involved.

I am trying to be sympathetic but given that he made his feelings very clear from the beginning, I really don?t think she has anything to complain about. She made the decision to continue with the pregnancy knowing that he was not going to be involved. AIBU.

Which does not abscond him from stepping up to the plate as a father if he doesn't by the way.

Wherever he is in the world.

I do kind of feel sorry for men who have sex but the woman gets pg through contraception failure.

That's understandable. I mean, he has to agonise on what to do about the pregnancy, either consider abortion, or continue with the pregnancy, which ever way he goes there is risk to his health/well being. His life won't be the same, the effect the pregnancy would have on him physically and mentally would be pretty tough to go through especially if he's on his own. He'll have to take time off to actually give birth, and then look after the child, with the massive impact it'll have on his earnings and future career prospects. Then go through arranging childcare to return to work, or consider living an existence on state benefits if he can't quite get the balance of work/childcare/home life right. All that responsibility on his shoulders alone, it's hard for him eh? As for the mother? It's clearly harder having to stand back and let someone else do it all alone, worrying about that 15% of your income disappearing when she's got no way to protest against that especially if she made it clear from the start she didn't actually want to be a mother. I mean, she vaguely knew that sex might cause a pregnancy, but she never really gave it much thought, and the man is just a selfish arsehole who wants to trap her, and cause her untold misrey by forcing parenthood on her. On balance, I think it's only fair that she can opt to fuck off and live her life, unaffected by the existence of a child she played only a tiny part in creating. That's just evening up the imbalance of this situation isn't it? Isn't it? Oh, wait a minute...

Some pretty hysterical rants here. Seriously, if you want a baby then find a man who wants one too. Trying to play happy families with someone who clearly doesn't want to just sounds desperate and weird. If you don't think you can handle taking the morning after pill or having an abortion then don't have sex.

Men and women HAVE equal rights with regard to pregnancy.

Both parties can terminate their involvement in creating and growing a child as long as they are physically involved in that process.

That's why a lesbian can't force her partner, gestating her own biological child, to terminate. That's why biological parents can't stop a surrogate from terminating if she wished to. That's why a frozen embryo can't be implanted without both parents' consent.

If you want to make the reproductive process more egalitarian get to work designing an artificial womb. Trying to remove women's rights to abortion, or young children's rights to financial support, would do fuck all for equality.

Samadi-

The same could be said of men.

This thread makes me wonder what some parents are teaching their sons and daughters when it comes to the potential consequences of sex.

I've told both my children to be very careful about sex. To make sure that the other person really wants to have sex with them, to only have sex when you really really want to. To take precautions against both pregnancy and STDs and recognise that however careful you are things can and do go wrong sometimes.

I've told dd that we will support her if she gets pregnant, and although she also knows I am pro-choice I've made it very clear that it will be totally her choice as to what course of action she follows.

I've told ds that if he gets a girlfriend pregnant we will support them, but it will be totally her choice as to what course of action she follows. If he does end up being a father (whether it is his choice or not) then we will expect him to step up to the plate (as will we, any potential child being our grandchild too). For me that involves a great deal more than coughing up 15% of his income.

Life comes with consequences, whether they are fair or not is ultimately immaterial.

Too many assumptions about contraception failure too if you ask me. The truth is a ridiculous number of people domg use any at all and are then shocked that their bits do indeed work and there is s pregnancy.

*domg ???? DON'T

This thread makes me wonder what some parents are teaching their sons and daughters when it comes to the potential consequences of sex.

I shall be without a shadow of a doubt teaching my sons that if they don't want children then always always use protection before you get in to a situation where you really are stuck. Using the "don't have sex at all if you don't want children" line to a young person is pretty pointless and people are naive in thinking that their sons or daughters will live by that.

I will also tell them to be very wary. Just as people with daughters will be warning them of the men that get a woman pregnant and abdicate their responsibilities, I will be warning my sons of the possible heartache they could go through if they met the wrong person. Do they really want to get a woman pregnant who doesn't want the baby and aborts the baby leaving them as the dad thinking "what if?" for the rest of their lives. Or in another possible scenario, having a baby with a woman, them splitting up and then she stops him from seeing the child. I'll also warn them about the CSA. That might be enough altogether to make them think twice about having unprotected sex.

All I want for my DSs is for them to meet someone who loves them and who he loves just as much, they have respect for each other and neither of them are going to hurt each other. But all that is very rosy indeed.

Nooka that's exactly what I've been trying to say about life's unfairness. And yet people seem obsessed that it must be fair, if not the unfairness must only affect the woman.

Of course I forgot to mention, tell them to make sure if they are going to be responsible and use protection, then the woman they are having sex with should equally so. If the condom splits, the pill is there as well. If she forgets to take her pill, then the condom is there as well. Again, all very well telling them this but I can't control them.

There's always the morning after pill as well. If he has done his bit and it splits, then that's her bit there. It's an equal responsibility. Men AND women.

YABU! You come across as really quite horrible.

But I want to know how she got pregnant last year and is still pregnant?

Great posts by bunchamuch and 5madthings.

How can anyone not see this is beyond me!

Sowhat, the message 'don't have sex if you don't want a baby' isn't just about persuading people to not have sex, but to make sure they understand there are consequences that are foreseeable and that requires acknowledgement of their own responsibility in creating a pregnancy. Have sex by all means but don't act like an arsehole if the inevitable happens when you should know it can still happen even if you don't want it to. Having a tantrum and running away from said pregnancy isn't taking responsibility. Ranting about how unfair it is you have no say after the pregnancy happens is just such a cowardly response, and illustrates that the message sex=baby seems to have eluded the more intellectually challenged who seem unable to process the basic facts of life with the stats on the success rates of contraception.

bunchamunch has it spot on in both posts.

samandi If you don't think you can handle taking the morning after pill or having an abortion then don't have sex. that is the most rediculous statement i have ever heard. So anyone who doesn't want an invasive medical procedure and to have to live with killing their own baby just because of who it's biological father is, should be banned from having sex?
Goodbye human rights.

the biggest question here for me is was it really an accident or did she trick him and hope he'd be happy and stick around? I know so many women who have done this, sometimes they get lucky, sometimes they don't. If it was a genuine accident, they are both responsible and I think he should show greater support and interest. if she whoops forgot the pill, stuck a pin in the condom packet etc etc, then well she can't be angry that he isn't interested. try and be kind, she's probably pretty scared and having a baby is daunting at the best of times. you will probably mess something up in your life one day and expect her sympathy and support. cuts both ways.

jeneregretrien I can only surmise that you are possibly one of the more, ahem, intellectually challenged group who seem unable to comprehend the fact the no contraception is 100% fail-safe, if you genuinely believe the biggest question here is 'was the pregnancy really an accident?'. If that's your 1st thought, then maybe you should spend a bit of time reading the small print on any contraception you use, 'cos unplanned pregnancies don't just happen because a woman is devious and therefore sabotages the contraception used. Ignoring of course the fact that no one should rely on someone else to protect against STDs or pregnancy, if they are willingly having sex with someone. Personally, I think the biggest question is why, even now, society still absolves men of responsibility for their own actions while vilifying women for the same actions, when only one of them actually takes responsibility for the consequences. Maybe dwell on that a bit, instead of all those 'devious' women out there trying to trap poor, unsuspecting thick as fuck men who still don't get the rather simple fact that sex can = baby.

Wallison - why on earth is that repellant??

I love just how many messages have been deleted on this, probably saying what a lot of us think about your "friendship"..........

I've heard this before about men being the 'victim' of a contraception sabotage. It's a view which doesn't really stand up to scrutiny as the man is perfectly able to make sure he uses his own condoms.

YANBU

I do feel sorry for your friend, but she hasn't been mislead at any point.

^what Sarah said^

It sounds like she could do with a supportive friend who could show her a little kindness.

i think the intellectually challenged are those who think that a woman should not take responsibility for her own fertility.

she chose to have sex.
the contraception was unreliable.
she chose not to use a morning after pill.
she found herself 'accidentally' pregnant.
her choice was to keep the baby.
the man didn't want to know.
she tried to convince him.
he was having none of it.
she was surprised when he decided to exit the vicinity.
mumsnetters think he is doing the wrong thing.
because she isn't responsible for her choices - to have sex, to have sex with unreliable contraception, not to use a morning after pill, to have a baby on her own when she could have had an abortion, not to believe him when he said he wasn't interested - no, that's the man's responsibility.

i'm not the one who is 'intellectually challenged'.

Agreed peaceandlovebunny!