To have told SIL "no...NOT Pardon!"?

[MrsMushroom]

We're abroad with DHs family.

DD aged 4 didn't hear something SIL said.....DD said "What?" and SIL said "WHAT? WHAT??? I think you mean PARDON don't you?"

I HAD to say..."No...in England "what" is fine. Or If you prefer..."sorry, I didn't catch that."

Was I rude? I just don't want DD saying "Pardon" or even worse "P'don"

Oh and Merry Christmas everyone!

It never fails to amaze me how readily people on Mumsnet will admit to being snobs,as though it's a desirable character trait to look down on other people,or a loveable quirk,rather than something one really ought to be ashamed of.

So to summarise:

If your children say 'what' then many people will think they're being rude.

If your children say 'pardon' then snobby posh people will think them common.

And no matter which one children use, someone is likely to chastise them for it when all they are trying to do is politely join in the conversation ? Nice.

Still, it's touching to think that all the self-proclaimed U types think that their opinions of the lower classes (based entirely on word etiquette as proclaimed by a Nazi - sympathising family , is that right ? ) - really matter to anybody.

We say what (upper middle class DW's influence) or sorry?

Pardon is very Hyacinth Bucket....

I think people will say what their family says unless they are totally kidding themselves.

Who is the Nazi sympathising family?

It was Nancy Mitford who declared the whole non-U thing.

Her sisters, Diana & Unity were Nazi's, Jessica was a Communist.

I'm pretty sure Nancy trod carefully down the middle

Recently informed a teacher that I will not allow: Pardon, Toilet, Serviette, but am happy to let the odd fuck slip by.
It's What.

SetPhasers, it was the Mitfords - one of them wrote the guide for U and non- words.

Not much about language makes me cross , but this web of traps set to catch out and sneer at people who don't understand class-based rules really makes me angry - especially when those people are children trying to learn how to take part in conversations. Understanding and using the correct grammar is difficult enough, without the constructs of class- based snobbishness to consider as well. Just talk to each other, FFS - the best way for children to learn is to have language modelled correctly and to join in - not be constantly told off for being rude or common.

By the way, the polite thing to do is to avoid criticising what you consider to be the mistakes of others , especially when this would make them embarrassed uncomfortable. But hey, you carry on guffawing and sneering at 'pardon' - it's sure to make all your children really enjoy conversations with you.

Ah, I stand corrected on the Mitfords. Thank you for clarifying Newpencilcase.

"What did you say" is better than just saying "what", Just "What" on it's own is so rude. Pardon is a bit dated today but still better than being rude.

I think 'what' is very rude.

DawnDonna that made me snort

I've always said "sorry". Seems to cover every situation.

Thanks newpencilcase and inertia.

I'm imagining DawnDonna getting called into meet with the head as her dc have been saying "serviette".

I think, Everlong it depends on the context. If one of my older 3 snapped 'what?' at me, that would be rude. My youngest actually says 'what did you say' (I've just been experimenting!).

Now in the depths of thought over this, I think I tend to say 'what did you say?' almost always, but, I don't know, if I'm in the kitchen and DS grunts something on walking in, I'm likely to say what in response.

I'm certainly not judging people on what they say, but equally I don't expect others to judge me or how I speak. I don care who you re or where you're from, I'm no better than others and they're no better than me.

Ugh, I hate 'pardon' it makes my teeth itch. In our house we say what. I don't see what's wrong with that?

Inertia, you may as well say 'it's touching that the lower middle classes think their opinions matter' - since they think 'what' is rude. (with apols to Nick Kershaw).

spirit, fgs, lack of sleep results in crap typing!

And I'll learn to proof read too.

If you didn't hear what somebody said the only reason you would ask them to pardon you is if you were doing something wrong, like not listening properly to them. That is something a gentleperson would never do, therefore there is no need ever to ask for forgiveness. Saying pardon is an admission that you were being rude. To say "What?" is to say there was a factor out of your control that meant you couldn't hear them.

Pardon means you're rude.
What is polite.

(And when driving one of those horseless carriages in town you should always slow down to walking pace so you don't raise dust.)

Iinertia, I don't think anyone is expecting other people's children to follow any rules other than their own parents'. No-one is 'correcting' other people in public (bar OP who was reacting to her SIL telling OP's ds off). The thread asked a question, people are giving their opinions, not lecturing anyone or criticizing them. No need to be so defensive.

oh Lord more crap typing, that was 'Inertia'.