To think having children does not make you less selfish

[Atthewelles]

There's a woman I work with who constantly expects everyone to fit in with her child care arrangements. Even if its part of her job to attend a late evening meeting she will insist that a colleague covers for her because 'I have kids'. She has had the last couple of Christmasses off but is insisting she is getting this one as well, even though people are meant to take turns at providing cover on 27th - 31st Dec because 'I have a young family'. She's the same with Summer holidays. The creche closes for the first fortnight in August so, as far as she's concerned, this gives her an automatic right to have these two weeks off despite the high demand from other staff.
I have just heard her discussing, with another colleague, how becoming a mother totally changes you and makes you 'much less selfish'. .
I have heard people come out with that remark before, even though some of the most selfish people I know are those with small children who expect the world to revolve around them.
AIBU to think that some people are selfish and some are not, and parenthood does not change that?

I think it does make you less selfish but there are exceptions to every rule!

Essentially she is always putting her DC first which she assumes makes her less selfish. She's just forgotten there's another world out there...

YANBU.

Selfish people will be selfish with or without kids. They just seem to think that having kids justifies that. I'm working till midnight tonight, not great with a 9 month old baby, but it's my job. I start work at 6:30am on Boxing Day, again not thrilled, but I work in retail, it is to be expected and I would never demand someone else to do it just because I have a baby.

Yanbu - we all have needs/commitments/loyalties whatever our circumstances. Gently remind her to be thankful that she doesn't work in a 24 hr 7day a week service where we have to work whatever.

Give her a copy of The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins. IMHO having children is one of the most selfish things anyone can do.

Haven't people at work pulled her up on it?

She has to get on with it and take the rough with the smooth, she is being selfish to her colleagues by pulling the whiney 'but I have young kids' card!

She may well have been a selfish arse before children.

This type of behaviour is only allowed to continue because other people allow it to......

I suppose it may have made her less selfish in that she now puts her kids needs ahead of her own - but that has just made her selfish by proxy - she expects other people to put her kids needs ahead of their own needs too.

It makes you less selfish in the sense that you have this little person to look after and you need to put their needs first but it makes people very selfich in other aspects of their lives.

so who approved her time off and if her contract says she should cover Christmas, why isn't she being held to that?

If she gets her request in for the first 2 weeks of August first, then she should get those weeks, even if it's the same 2 weeks every year, if someone else gets there first, tough.

If she isn't getting in first or her contract says she should cover over christmas but her boss is letting her just insist on this stuff, then you should take your complaint to your boss.

If she has a partner, they can cover some of the time as well.

Having DCs makes you put them first, but doesn't mean you aren't still selfish in relation to the rest of the world.

'I have heard people come out with that remark before, even though some of the most selfish people I know are those with small children who expect the world to revolve around them'

Could not agree more. Some parents are unbearably smug and seem to think they are worth of sainthood just because they have children. People like that seem to see their children as an extension of themselves so they're not being selfless at all, just expecting everyone else to fit in with 'me-and-my-child' rather than just 'me'.

I'm childfree and have been told more than once that not having children 'will make me very selfish'. Including by my own father who is one of the most self-absorbed, narcissistic people I know but has a sainthood complex and thinks he's the best father in the world!

oh and I'm much more selfish about my personal time for work - I won't do free overtime now, becuase it impacts negatively on DS.

Who should get Christmas off, A mother with a child or her childless colleague?

I think it should be the mother personally. I don't think she has the right to get it off, but everything else being equal, I think she should get it off.

And when the creche is closed, if she didn't have that time off she might have to spends £££s on childcare temporarily putting her DC in a new environment.

IABU I know!

But thelean, childless people have commitments too, and loved ones that they want to spend time with.

Christmas is not 27-31st! Those are normal working days! Rant over

TBH when my kids are grown then I won't mind colleagues with families having first dabs at time off. I really appreciate having Christmas & summer holidays with children & I would want others to have the same chance.

I agree with yellowsubmarine This type of behaviour is only allowed to continue because other people allow it to....

She can't insist that she has certain holiday periods - if there are rules about rotas or sharing or ballots or first-come-first-served then she must obey them.

But people are having Christmas off, if they're not working Christmas Day. 27-31st are standard working days within the Christmas period!

YANBU.

And our colleague is misguided if she thinks she isn't selfish.

And someone is authorising these holidays year on year, which IMVHO is where the problem lies.

I agree with theleanandhungrytype.

Being a mother means you don't actually get to chose your holidays, they have to be when your children are off. You don't ever really get a holiday as such. You just juggle things around when the kids' holidays are and there can never enough holidays to cover the 13 weeks of school. It's hard enough as it is without colleagues, with little or no commitments, making things difficult for you with no understanding of what it's like.

Those that can take their holidays any time should fit around those that can't.

Atthewelles - you'd soon change your tune if you had children.

'Those that can take their holidays any time should fit around those that can't'

Not having children doesn't mean that you are footloose and fancy free. What about people who have to care for family members over Christmas?

'Atthewelles - you'd soon change your tune if you had children'

That's just a wee bit patronising

It's made me less selfish.

Before I had children, I did what I wanted. Now I think of them and their needs before my own.

When people say having children makes you less selfish - that's the kind of less selfish they mean.

Not that you suddenly turn into someone who puts co workers above themselves

You can be a parent and still be a selfish person.

Parents are no less selfish on average than nonparents, and their levels of selfishness don't necessarily change when they become parents, they just include their children in their sense of "self".

Parents don't and shouldn't get an automatic right to holidays and Christmases off, sorry. A request may be accomodated, but it's not a given right and should never be expected.

Happy

What a rude and dismissive post. People without children do have commitments as well you know - including elderly parents. You sound extremely self centred - everyone should understand your circumstances, but you can just dismiss everyone elses. I should introduce you to my colleague, you'd get on very well together.