To get really pissed off with other mothers who let their children behave appallingly and just ignore it?

[Festivelyfedup]

Today I went out for lunch with DH and DS. DS is a real wriggle and finds it difficult to sit still for too long but we are being strict about it and instilling good behaviour in him (he's 2). He was doing really well and then suddenly a much older boy is standing on the bench next to him and announces his name. His mother came over and took him away. Two minutes later he's back and actually tries to climb over DS. His mother ambles over and mutters sorry. Then the same boy and two others (all 5/6) start climbing on all the spare seats and booths, sitting on top of the partitions and sliding along the alcoves at the back of all the booths, behind people eating. The mothers all sat finishing their drinks. When they had paid they picked their children up and they left. Not one of them was told off! I can't help but get annoyed with this kind of thing as we are trying to teach DS how to behave well and then he sees that kind of behaviour. AIBU?

It is difficult. I have 3 dcs, and have spent lots of time in cafes making sure they are not behaving in such a way as to upset other cutomers. My dds are now 5 and 6, and they are both pretty well behaved. And I agree that parents shouldn't just ignore it when their dcs are running around or making tons of noise.

However, ds, who is 2.5 and has a rare genetic condition is a bit more difficult. I usually time cafe visits for times when he might be asleep in his pushchair, or make it a very short visit.

Recently we met with dh's family in a family friendly restaurant, it was a nightmare, as ds ate and then he wanted to lie on the carpet - I stupidly thought this wasn't a problem when he was doing it by my feet, tucked out of the way from people walking around, so not causing any obstruction, but the table next to us kept staring and tutting, at the noise that ds was making (he doesn't talk, but makes an, 'uh, uh, uh' sound) and the fact that he was curled up on the floor in between dh and I. So then dh and I took it in turns to walk him around the carpark, until everyone had finished.

Is Pizza Express a family restaurant? Eliza do you think these boys' behaviour was ok?

Hazey your example is completely different to the one I had described and you dealt with the situation. IMO your DS doesn't sound like he was being annoying in any way if he was by yor table and so didn't merit the tutting.

do you know i just love going to italy or spain - as soon as you get on the plane - you can breathe a sigh of relief you wont be around up tight brits...the baby cries - they tuck her under the chin and pull funny faces and all smile lovingly at her...all shop keeper and waiters fuss her - as in moroco - it was almost like a baby sitting service in morocoo - in nealry every bar - restuarant the waiters and waitresses scooped her off - walked her on the bar - spun her round in seats - gave her ice in a cocktail shaker to play with - at the BEST hotel in marakech - in the dark serious jazz bar DD was running rund with another liitle girl in there the manager got out little paper cocktail umbrellas for them - put bits of fruit on a stick for them the singer sang " isnt she lovely " for them!! Everyone in there was smiling and asking us about her....everyone so helpful and kind - then get back to uptight britain!!!

dog lovers - child haters

Yes i would say pizza express is definalty a family resturant!!!

Yes I do - I read your title and thought you were blowing off steam about something like truelly violent children at soft play or toddler groups - where i have witnessed truelly awful behaviour - boys swinging chairs at other kids heads - lashing out on the trampoline with his leg to side kick other kids - evry single parent having to wacth thier own child because of one or two errant mums ignoring theirs....

NOT some boys - standing on a booth!! if they had spat at yo u- kicked your son - stuck ktongues out even!! but no - some bored boys - with thier mums having a little xmas get together...

Agree with Folkelf. I have 3 DCs, one is 6 yo, the others are 2 yo, eating out so I sympathise with parents when their children do act up in restaurants provided that they are trying to do something about it, and trying effectively. I've been in that situation before and will be in the future.

It doesn't sound from the OP and later posts that the parents were really trying to do anything. Letting three boys slide around booths when people are eating is completely unacceptable. I don't think that finishing your drinks is a good enough excuse for the parents, in that case, if you cannot get your children to stop, you get them out of there whilst someone settles the bill and then discipline them.

I agree with the points about children seeing others misbehave and them learning that they cannot do that, is a good lesson for the future. I have found it hard in the past when DS's cousin has misbehaved, DS finds it difficult to understand why he cannot do the same thing. I find it annoying as it adds to my work when I'm already managing two smaller children, but he needs to learn the lesson. It might make him think twice when he is 16 and I am not there to say no.

I'm sorry Hazey that you had to put up with such appalling behaviour from ADULTS! That was simply not on. Your DS was not disturbing them in anyway, they would have had a death glare from me! (You should practice one, it can be very effective!!!)

Wow Eliza - I think we might have rather different standards. I am not sure what I would do if I saw some of the behaviour you describe. I wouldn't describe it as bad behaviour but more as hooliganism to be honest.

Also not sure about your "dog lover - child hater" comment. I have a dog and a child and I like both. In my experience that's not uncommon...

Is your 2 year old in a high chair? Quite a lot easier to get him to sit still I'd say than an older one. I have a 2 year old and a 4 year old and the younger one is better behaved in restaurants etc. Plus the mum did have a word with him a couple of times about his behaviour. She just probably wanted to be able eat her food too rather than constantly disciplining her son.

The behaviour of the children does sound a bit annoying but I do tend to think older kids seem badly behaved when you only have a little one.

Agree with DIY, Hazey, the adults were well out of order. I'm sorry it spoilt your meal.

If chldren want to slide around, take them to a playground, not a restaurant. If the parents want to get together and ignore what their children are doing, go to someones house so that other people are being disturbed. If I pay for a meal in PE, I expect a certain amount of noise etc from other children, not sliding around behind me whilst I am eating. I find it hard to believe that you find this acceptable eliza.

No, of course he's not in a high chair. I definitely am holding in to my beliefs that children should get better behaved as they get older not worse. Where would we all be by the time they are teenagers if we just let it slide all the time as they get older. Maybe this is why we have such problems with anti-social behaviour.

Oops, that should read NOT being disturbed.

Yanbu. If your child cannot reliably sit still in a restaurant then do not take them to a restaurant, even if its a child friendly one! I can't understand why parents seem unable to grasp this concept.

I'll never forget the meal I had out with my family when I had to keep my eye on the door to the restaurant because a couple sitting right at the back thought nothing of allowing their toddler to run the length of the restaurant right up to the door and open it. If he had gone outside he would have been on the road in 3 paces and there was no way his parents could have got to him to stop him. So I had to keep standing up and closing the door and telling him to go back to Mummy and Daddy while his stupid parents just sat there smiling indulgently! Fucking twats.

YANBU but wait with the smugness til your DC hits and is tired out at the end of an epic term and being hyped up by a gang of other little boys.

The behaviour described in the op was annoying and undesirable but not appaulling imo. You will be shocked, horrified and disgusted every day once your ds goes to school if your behaviour bar is set that high. I would not let my chikdren get away with that behaviour in a restaurant. We are planning to go to a central london pizza express this weekend and the 4,6 and 8 yo will all be expected to sit and eat and be good but the urge to run is strong and they need guidance, climbing on seats is not the worst behaviuor i have seen in a restaurant.

So yanbu to expect the children to be properly and actively supervised but yabu to describe the behaviour in such strong terms.

'hits 5' (darn numbers lock!)

Festive some things get easier as they get older, some things get harder. It's swings and roundabouts.

It's just that you hope the basics are there so that when the other challenging stuff arises you're tackling something new and are not just firefighting the basics and tackling the new stuff!

Elizaregina - reading the OP, it seems that the children weren't just standing on a booth, they were climbing on all the spare seats and booths, and sliding along the backs of the booths behind other diners - how is that not bad behaviour?

There's bound to be a bit of disruption from children in a family restaurant - I know that and accept it. But I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the parents to keep their children at or near their own table - or under it, as another poster described her child. But it is not reasonable for a parent to allow their child/ren to play all over the restaurant - it is a restaurant, not a playground, and different standards of behaviour do obtain there. And for me, there is a big difference between a certain level of noise and disruption from children at a nearby table, and the noise and disruption of those same children playing around my table.

From the OP, it also seems to me that it was more the attitude of the mums that irked the OP than the behaviour of the children. One mum did remove her child and mutter sorry, but then they all completely ignored what their children were doing, and apparently made no attempts whatsoever to stop them disrupting the whole restaurant and using it as a playground. Children are not always little angels and are going to misbehave/push the boundaries sometimes - it is how the parent deals with this that matters for me.

And I would like to ask the parents of children with SEN - would you completely ignore such behaviour from your child? I accept that you might well need to deal with your child differently because of their different needs and reactions, but would it be right to ignore the behaviour altogether? I do understand that having SEN might make a situation like a restaurant very challenging to cope with for both child and parent, and that understanding and tolerance is needed from other people, but how often is it the right reaction to do nothing at all, even when others are being disrupted?

YAsoNBU. Cant stand useless "sweetie darling" type parents. If you cant control your DC to act in a civil manner dont take them to cafes/restaurants. We ate out in Italy (restaurant opened at 8pm) about a third of the tables had DC under 6 on them but you wouldnt have known it all beautifully behaved eating dinner as a family that seemed the norm over there. Its depressing how low standards can be here (eg Elizas comments).

Its the lack of sensitivity/not giving a stuff about others that annoys me. We take colouring books so we can sit for abit with our DC (3 and 5). If they get restless we leave if we have to miss dessert so be it. A group of us meet at a coffee shop with DC who will sit and colour for about half an hour the minute they get fidgety we decamp to the park - not fair on other customers and staff to turn eating places into soft play areas just so you can enjoy yourself

Bigmouthstrikesagain - maybe I have been lucky, I would find the sort of behaviour in a restaurant described in the OP, pretty appalling. If I am out for a meal, I don't expect to have the back of my booth climbed on by someone else's child whilst I am trying to eat - nor do I expect the parent to ignore this. As I said a moment ago - I do expect a certain level of noise and disruption in a family restaurant, but this behaviour goes well past what I would consider acceptable.

If I go into a cafe or restaurant and there are lots of children making a noise running around I walk out again and find a more peaceful place. And there are a lot of children who behave well when out.

I agree with you OP. I don't see what being a "family restaurant" has anything to do with it! That's all some people can afford. Why should they have their meal out ruined, because some people quite frankly can not be bothered to teach their children how to behave? What is wrong with including the DC in the conversations, paying them some attention, keeping them occupied?

Oh, and I can be smug because do you know what? My DSes have got to the grand old age of 16&18 without ever climbing over furniture in a restaurant, or running around, or pissing all the other other diners off! They wouldn't have done it at home, or the grandparent's, so they certainly didn't do it out!

I have had lots of compliments in their behaviour, however!

I agree SDTG.

I have always felt that as a parent even if your kids are being appallingly behaved that you need to at least be seen to try and control your kids. I think other people appreciate the effort,especially If you have been there yourself.

In terms of SN this intrigues me slightly it always comes up . I have a brother with downs and another brother with ASD now both in their 30's .My brother with ASD was often a handful(thats being polite) but a combination of strategies ,timing and telling people he had autism and was trying to learn something new helped.There were behaviour standards for us all as kids(there were 6 of us).

We were a family and just got on with it,It must have been very hard for my parents but they accepted the best from us all ,that best was different for each off us but was expected nonetheless.

I am now a Teacher (work with kids with ASD put those skills to good use!!)and expect the same from the children I teach and my own children.My job is to guide them to do and be their very best .That means I have to my best too to provide these guidelines and boundaries its my job both as a parent and a Teacher .I do think parents struggle sometimes and occassionally give up ,I think when you get to that point its time to go home.

Absolutely SDT and Kerala.

We are doing all we can to make DS a well behaved child so that when he starts at school he isn't "that child". He definitely has his naughty moments and that's why I find it frustrating when other children seem to be allowed to do whatever they like. Maybe we are a little strict but both DH and I had very strict upbringings too.