Is this likely to happen? Benefit related.

[littlemisssarcastic]

And where would it end?? Is this just the start of a slippery slope ?

So its up to DWP staff based on nothing other than there own personal bias?

No. The number of years in work can be accurately counted. The number of children conceived while on unemployment benefits can be accurately counted.

"It is state money, being given to you because you are in need. They have every right to tell you to spend it on the essentials. But oh dear what about those who'll get depressed because they can't have a bottle of wine or go to the gym? Welcome to the real world. Can't afford, you don't get. Like many of us."

Dear god GhostShip, can you read?

These are just a few things that a card system would make difficult if not impossible

• pay for car parking at the hospital
• pay for car parking if I had to go into town (whether it was to buy cheaper items or go job hunting)
• pay a bus fare (no oyster card around here)
• put a pound into some supermarket trolleys
• buy from market stalls
• buy from stores where there is a minimum transaction amount for card
• buy from some charity shops
• buy from car boot sales
• pay for activities at the local children's centre

Outraged But if people can withdraw any cash then how is the card system stopping anyone spending money on "luxuries"? What does the card system actually achieve?

Most systems where this is in place class cakes and most of the ingredients off as prohibited.

Do you have a link to information about which places already have a similar system and how it works for them?

I'd be interested to read how it works in reality rather than as a hypothetical idea.

really?

WOW

so children whose parents are on beneifits wont even be allowed to have a birthday cake made by their mum someone?

so no eggs flour sugar and butter then for those on benefits?

Im sorry but i do NOT support a system that denies people on benefits the most basic of basic foods. (perhaps they will have to buy cocoa and make a chocolate cake instead of a victoria sandwhich)

And i cant imagine an MP supporting that you cant use this card to buy those basic staple ingediants!

It achieves an incentive to work for your own money.

if the cards are given in conjunction with a monthly 'paper' money top up, it might work. That is how it works in the US. Not all things can be expected to slip on to the card.

I'm not really that impressed with the idea though. The area I lived in the US was dreadfully hit by the bad economy, many of my neighbors had an EBT card -it wasn't without fault. It was also open to abuse. It cooks up a whole new black market economy.

The 'incentive to work' argument might have had somer relevance 5-10 years ago. But now? There are no jobs anyway!

Hopefully we won't always have no jobs though.

We may as well prepare for success rather than admit defeat before we have even tried.

It achieves an incentive to work for your own money the incentive perhaps but it won't create jobs out of thin air.

Most food (in the US) can be purchased. Even seeds to grow your own veg/herbs. It covers all ingredients to make things, eggs , flour etc...prob vanilla essence. It does not cover cooked chickens deli style, or food from cafes in supermarkets.

There are some Americans who think the EBT card system is too generous. They'd like participants to only be able to buy basics, rice, beans , etc. No brand names, coke, instant meals!

Some people can press for cash if they are on welfare/unemployment, it comes out of their version of the giro. Bear in mind 'unemployment' is only given for a certain amount of weeks , then you are on your own!

Hopefully we won't always have no jobs though.

The labour market has been shrinking since 1900 !!!

First you have to convince capitalists to create new markets, when they have, the must invest, they won't invest in lots of labour because that is not profitable for them. G.E as a perfect example made huge profits from 1970 ish through to mid 80's, rather than expand their core business they went into banking, the quashed the wages of their workers and squeezed more profit, they then lent poor people the means to buy cars, clothes etc,,,,and charged them interest. They didn't create jobs but they made shit loads for the share holders.

There is little money in investing in areas where you have high labour costs.

Gordyslovesheep - "benefit claimants are Cameron's Jews - hate to say it like that but it's true - every right wing Gov needs scapegoats to allow them to attack more and more people and destroy more and more services

...think 'First they cam for the Jews ...'"

What a load of offensive steaming hyperbole! You may not like Cameron etc but he isn't rounding up benefit claimants, putting them into concentration camps and gassing them. He isn't throwing little babies in the air and shooting them or confiscating their property. The Tories (and Labour have said they would do the same) are downsizing the welfare state. I really really hate it when people compare the orchestrated annihilation of a whole people and their culture to some people having their benefits cut slightly or restricted. By all means criticise the Tories or Labour or whoever but don't use silly and offensive examples!

I watched an interesting film the other day, about the states. Even some airline pilots have been claiming food stamps because their pay is too low to support a family.

We had plenty of jobs not that long ago under labour. There are still families who have been unemployed for generations. Some people didn't get jobs even when there were enough to go round, so if we find ourselves in a situation agin where we have plenty of jobs, what makes you think that everyone who could will go out and get one?

No everyone will, because not everyone has a sense of personal responsibilty. Some people are happy to live on benefits because they are generous and they keep coming if you have more children. A comfortable life for doing nothing isn't exactly an unattractive prospect. So we need to make the prospect less appealing, more unattractive than it has been, otherwise the problem of people with no incentive to work will never go away.

The labour market has been shrinking, maybe, but that is partly because the population is growing to an unsustainable level because of immigration and people having children they cannot afford to support.

Orwel, Hitler didn't start rounding up Jews within a few months of coming to power. The Nazi's first had to glean the approval of ordinary people, this they did through propaganda.

We had plenty of jobs not that long ago under labour yes labour diverted investment to areas in the north and then lots of what the right refer to as NON JOBS were created. These jobs are now being cut.

Will someone please explain to Iain Duncan Smith,and other such stupid people that shameless is not a documentary.

What type of jobs are you referring to Mini? Are they jobs that still need to be done, or are they jobs that were created by Labour for the sake of massaging the unemployment figures?

Outraged Massaging the unemployment figures? Surely a job is a job?

Posted on other thread, but this is only being suggested for drug addicts to ensure they get the essentials they need, and as such is a good plan.

No, the labour market is shrinking because we have less investment into jobs in the real economy. We need less people because jobs have been outsourced and because we are a post industrial country. We need less jobs because of mechanisation and computers. This will of course continue and what is more it is likely to gather pace because corporates have been looking to financial markets and products to invest in rather than their core business.

Not necessarily.

There are jobs that aren't really needed. For example, I could pay someone to walk my dog for me, or clean my house, or do my ironing, or look after my children, if I had the money (as the Labour government felt they did). I don't need someone to walk my dog for me, but if I decide I want to create a job for someone, I could pay someone else to do it. Then they would pay tax on the income I pay them and they could claim to be employed. That doesn't mean that the job is one that is actually needed.

That's another reason for it Mini, but it's not the only one. Mass unskilled immigration and children being born to parents who cannot support them contributes to the problem too.

So they're only "claiming" to be employed?