Is this likely to happen? Benefit related.

[littlemisssarcastic]

And where would it end?? Is this just the start of a slippery slope ?

Just wondering if this includes all benefits, not just means tested ones.

Like WFA and DLA , that rich Tories claim too. Now that I would support.

The jobs were not created to massage unemployment figures. The jobs were about community and economic regeneration in some of the most deprived areas of our country.

Lilybolero, no that does not make it a good plan. A drug addict will not say "oh well, I have no money so I'll just stop using drugs now". Addiction does not work that way

I'm prepared to believe that that and accept that you are right Mini, I'm just not sure what type of jobs you are talking about.

What an horrendous idea. A government cash card. Why don't they just stick a microchip and be done with it.

Meanwhile google/amazon/starbucks employ 'good tax sense'. These bills are designed to take focus off those who should be paying tax but don't and on to the so called 'troubled'.

MiniTheMinx - Do you seriously think that the Tories are going to start rounding up people on benefits and gassing them? Seriously, I mean really seriously? This is about as paranoid and over the top reaction as I have seen on Mumsnet. Sure, the benefits cuts are not nice but I really can't believe people, presumably sane people, think that this government is really going to erect huge concentration camps and start gassing people on benefits. This is the height of hyperbole and paranoia!

That doesn't mean that the job is one that is actually needed

All jobs are needed, what ever they might be. The fact is though that over a very long period less labour power is required in the private sector. This isn't new. This has been happening over a very long period of time.

A good way to explain why jobs are needed for economic growth and sustainability, regardless of who pays the wages is to think about the news today.

Debt to GDP ration has risen by 4% this year. This is because of the cuts. What it illustrates is that our debt is rising because tax receipts are falling, unemployment and welfare needs growing and output falling. All jobs create output and tax receipts.

I'm on the fence on this one. I know someone that is on DLA for depression and drinks a bottle and a half of wine every day. I'd be fucking depressed if I got through that much alcohol as it is a depressant.

Orwel, did I say that? NO. neither do I believe it. Do you, you seem to be very jumpy. If it were to happen, it is some way off. Capitalism can not sustain itself, as more people become surplus to the needs of the labour market they become a drain on the state, a drain on the state becomes a drain on the private sector through taxation etc. It will be slow realisation.

this already happens for asylum seekers, though, and they have reported all the problems mentioned above - can't shop at markets or local shops for cheap or ethnic food, can't decide what they really need e.g. nursery items when pregnant, and getting stigmatized.

plus Jesuit refugee services run a voucher swapping scheme which would no doubt happen for benefit claimants too (sorry I can't provide link on phone)

All jobs are needed, what ever they might be.

I disagree, but if you can't even explain what you mean by giving examples of the types of jobs you are referring to, then it's going to be very hard for others to come to share your point of view on that issue.

I have explained it ......Debt to GDP ratio has risen by 4% this year. This is because of the cuts. What it illustrates is that our debt is rising because tax receipts are falling, unemployment and welfare needs growing and output falling. All jobs create output and tax receipts.

That information was on either panorama or dispatches I cant remember which one, it contained footage of refusals made in store of things that should be allowed according to the rules, and showed shops that only catered for food stamps and contained very little apart from stuff like noodles and canned stuff, short life bread and simerler stuff.

It wasn't very pleasant

Well let's just cut out the middle man here. All benefit claimants must go to a shelter for food 3 times a day. Porridge for breakfast, soup for lunch and dinner. If the claimant has applied for X amount of jobs that week they can have some bread with their soup. They should live in houses with rent paid directly from HB to the landlord. Gas and electric will be given on a monthly allowance, once it's gone it's gone. sorted! No need to give the scavengers any money at all!

You haven't explained what type of jobs you are talking about when you say that the Tories are cutting jobs that they think are non jobs.

Yes Southern, that's exactly what people are saying.

indeed!

aspiemum it won't stop addiction, you're right. However it will mean that an addict will have the means to get food etc, which otherwise they may well not.

Outraged.

So do people who conceive whilst on benefits have more of a risk of abusing drugs,fags and booze and not feeding there children then?

Or is it addicts that tend to do that regardless of when conception happened?

So people should be incentivised to work, but only if they do certain jobs, otherwise they are doing non-essential jobs that are just there to massage employment figures? Have I got that right?

Hammy DLA for depression? Really?

That wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, just an idea of where this slippery slope might end.

Add message | Report | Message poster LilyBolero Fri 21-Dec-12 10:56:41
aspiemum it won't stop addiction, you're right. However it will mean that an addict will have the means to get food etc, which otherwise they may well not

^

No it won't it means addicts will swop the cards for drugs

Fredo, councils are having to make cuts because there have been cuts to their budgets. They cut the so called "non Jobs" mainly in community and economic regeneration, they also cut jobs in frontline services.

This has 2 effects.... economic output falls and tax receipts fall. The other effect is that welfare need increases as more people req benefits. This means that the state has an ever greater gap btw what it needs to spend and what it actually raises in income. Added to which, people in secure employment create jobs in their local economies within the private sector because they have disposable income.

lily Unless they swap the vouchers/food card for money for drugs. And even if they didn't swap, then how else do you think they'd fund their addiction? Maybe they would use the cards for food, but if they do then they are going to be getting the money for drugs from elsewhere.

Sock, I didn't mention addicts.

A family doesn't have to suffer with addiction to be considered 'troubled'. There are other criteria.