Is this likely to happen? Benefit related.

[littlemisssarcastic]

And where would it end?? Is this just the start of a slippery slope ?

Fact of the matter is it will never happen because a high population of the country claim benefits and will be in uproar - as this has proven.
It is state money, being given to you because you are in need. They have every right to tell you to spend it on the essentials. But oh dear what about those who'll get depressed because they can't have a bottle of wine or go to the gym? Welcome to the real world. Can't afford, you don't get. Like many of us.

And I'll reiterate, this should only apply to those who have been claiming JSA for a lengthy time or families who keep having babies to keep them out of work. NOT those who are disabled, who claim top up benefits or have recently been made redundant.

The government can't be trusted to handle this correctly anyway so its pointless.

Can anyone afford gym membership on benefits...really? Our local swanky gym is £80 a month...even the council gym is £30.

If anyone on benefits can manage this then I'd be looking at how they are doing it as I'd be suspicious.

ghostship Still so much wrong in your thinking unfortunately.

There are some lengthy claimants that have done nothing wrong. there are no jobs do you begrudge them a glass of wine?

They are real humans, some of them having being tax payers longer then you have had years on this planet. It is not as simple as 'grouping' people in to neat little parcels. Its great you work for min wage, hats off! but its what you are supposed to do. Its what many would love the chance to do too.

We all know those who somehow 'milk' the system by having more kids etc...I don't feel anger toward those, I feel pity...wombs only last so long, and then what?

Carry on doing what you do, and please develop some empathy for your fellow humans...some of them are truly struggling.

You don't see the problem because you think all people on benefits are work shy scroungers.

Dawndonna, that's the exact opposite of what I actually wrote! I don't thnk pensioners are scroungers, I don't think disabled people are scroungers, I don't think people who are carers are scroungers, I don't think people who are unemployed temporarily are scroungers.

The people who I think of as scroungers are those men and women who conceive children when they are already claiming Child Tax Credits, or who conceive children and then one partner gives up work because they end up with the same amount of money as they would have if they didn't work. I think families where there are generations of unemployed people are scroungers, or people who are pretty much unemployable because of reasons that are nothing to do with health are scroungers.

So no, I don't have any problem with people like that being fed through a card system rather than through cash. They are still getting what they need, not being left to starve.

Outraged, it was directed at Orwellian, who only ever appears on these threads.

I think that was aimed at Orwellian....who posted that she/he didn't see a problem

What I find fascinating is, I was always hungry as a kid. Went without loads, crap, falling to pieces clothes, shoes that wouldn't keep anything dry, food in particular. My mother was the local headteacher. She never went without her fags, wine or Laura Ashley dresses.

Oh, sorry! I said I didn't see a problem too, so as Dawndonnas post was straight after mine, I wrongly assumed it was aimed at me

This government wants to criminalise poverty, at the same time as reducing people's ability to find work by forcing the unemployed into slave labour for their benefits.

Going by previous history troubled families = anyone who is on benefits.

Poor in some people's minds does equate to troubled.

So no, I don't have any problem with people like that being fed through a card system rather than through cash. They are still getting what they need, not being left to starve.

How do you sort the wheat from the chaff though?

Freddoes....many people claim child tax credits which tops up poor salaries. Many have a second child while still working and claiming tax credits.....you say they are scroungers even though they are working?

Sorry but I think you are wrong that would make most of the population either scroungers or the product of scroungers. And while we are on the subject can I just say for everyone on this thread......I HATE THE WORD "SCROUNGERS". Everyone has a story......

My friend

Aged 35
1child
Not worked since due to agoraphobia, anxiety and depression.
Claims benefits
Smokes like a chimney
Enjoys a glass of something alcoholic now and then.

The product of the most abusive childhood....think rape in every possible way under the age of 12 (apologies if that is triggering for anyone).
Her own mother in an abusive relationship
In and out of Refuges
Mother eventually goes into a lesbian relationship so things settle down but Mum and partner so wrapped up in themselves they cannot prioritise the children. My friend was cooking her own meals aged 8.

As an adult she is coping with what she experienced in childhood. The fact that her child is a girl brought home for her all the dangers her DD faces in the world.
She is having psychotherapy under the mental health team

And yeah...she smokes and she drinks alcohol.....deal with it those of you who would deny her this. Ask yourselves instead why the powers that be did not protect her as a child and accept that society has to support her now instead and she chooses to smoke and drink on benefits. At times she is almost suicidally depressed and if you look under the mental health board here you will see a thread posted by me just two days ago asking how I could best support her as she was in crisis and was sobbing down the phone.

She smokes and drinks while on benefits. Big deal.....she would exchange both tomorrow for her mental health to be good.

Gosh such a lot of anger on this thread

I do think the benefits system is odd. We give money to pensioners who have really high incomes to keep them warm, but not to parents with children who have low incomes.

I think in general terms we've got it wrong as a society, people expect to have so much these days. When I was growing up, if you couldn't afford it, you either saved up or you didn't have it. People find that really unacceptable these days.

You can get freeview but people want to pay for TV subscriptions because it's better. Yes I get you are stuck in the house because you aren't working - but it's not an essential.

Perhaps we are going backwards to more victorian values in this plan, but perhaps some of it is positive. I do believe stopping people buying cigarettes with their benefit money would be worthwhile - not sure about the alcohol to be honest. It is possible to be a responsible drinker! However support to quit smoking would have to be provided much more quickly and a calculation done to ensure that it was cost effective to stop people smoking (they live longer, require more state support and increase the need for housing by not dying ).

Haven't read the thread but has someone pointed out this is what happens to asylum seekers?

All three teams stand for the same thing, their loyalty bought and paid for by their puppet masters!

Would this be an alternative ? www.tusc.org.uk/

How do you sort the wheat from the chaff?

You look at them and make a judgement call.

I appreciate that government agencies are not currently very good at making appropriate judgements, look at the whole ATOS fiasco, but as this is a hypothetical policy, hypothetically there is no reason why common sense couldn't be applied when making these judgements.

And the point is, that we are not talking about taking benefits away. Everyone would still get what they are getting now, they will have what they need to live, it's only the method of paying those benefits that we are talking about here.

Also, surely we already control what people buy - we tax alcohol and cigarettes highly. That limits the consumption by those on a low income.

Outraged
The first time I got reported it was because I bought basmati rice instead of long grain, and the person was angry that I wasn't buying the cheaper stuff.
Surely it's up to me?
I'm serious by the way, this is what started the ball rolling with removing the 'fucking benefit scroungers' from the village.

You look at them and make a judgement call.

A system which does that is likely to be more expensive to administer than the one we presently have. Can you imagine the amount of hours of manpower spent gathering evidence that someone or other is malingering, etc?

You look at them and make a judgement call

So its up to DWP staff based on nothing other than there own personal bias?

Great way forward to hand even more control to people who are forced to do things they know to be wrong but can't challenge it. Or to those who would enjoy having that amount of power and control over someone who is extremely vulnerable from them. (But not vulnerable in any other context)

In theory I think its a great idea

but to stop those on benefits having cash to buy things from facebook local sites / car boots / ebay (& collect to save postage) seems grossly unfair, and IMO may make more children (& adults) go without essentials, because they will be forced to purchase them new from a shop (or website) that accepts their card.......

trying to imagine doing a supermarket shop..... WHO will pay for the new systems so the bill at the end is only for essentials.... imagine your tesco trolley full of everything......
will you be able to buy vanilla essence? I know 2 people who have been ID'd for buying vanilla essence because it contains alchohol.... if the system flags up ID for this alcoholic product? surely it will be considered a luxury? (not an ingrediant in a cake)
I assume they will be allowed to buy deodrant? what about eu de toilet? what about perfume? Is perfume a necessity? will you be allowed to spend £50 on a bottle of perfume, but not 50p on vanilla extract?

Hmmmmm i cant see this system ever working!

Every single country that uses this system already. Has huge problems from both ends.

Fraud and things associated with that at one end and at the other the lak of decent food included in the ok things to get.
Own brand super noodles for dinner or bovril drinks for lunch every day with only enough fresh veg for twice a week usage, sounds yummy, anybody up for that?

NannyL

Most systems where this is in place class cakes and most of the ingredients off as prohibited.

A system which does that is likely to be more expensive to administer than the one we presently have

Which is one of the many reasons why it will never happen. But that doesn't make it right that people with no sense of personal responsibility whatsoever are given free money to do whatever they want with.