To ask ex for addresses of where he is taking our son?

[DeltaUniformDeltaEcho]

Don't want to drip feed so will try and explain the situation so far:

DS is 3. His dad only made contact with him in the summer. So far they have had 3 visits together = altogether totalling 5 hours or so. Distance makes anything more regular difficult.

I want to encourage a relationship and have been incredibly flexible about this.

Now they are asking to have DS for the whole day just after christmas. This is fine and I think DS will enjoy himself but, they are driving just over an hour away to spend time with exs parents and then going on to their hotel for dinner. He will then drive him home.

I have said this is fine but I have asked for addresses of where they will be.

Now I'm worried this is a bit U but I feel quite anxious about the visit. DS has never been that far from me. I don't drive so if something terrible were to happen it would take me ages to get there by train.

I know I have to get used to him having another life with his dad that I won't be a part of but I just feel like I need to know where he will be.

AIBU?

YANBU I would have asked for the address too. I would want to know where my son is

YANBU. I'm going through something similar with my ExP who has only recently started having unsupervised contact but is refusing to even disclose the area he is taking my DS to, let alone the address. We are back at court this week and I'm hoping this can be resolved as it causes me great anxiety and if he didn't return him I wouldn't even know where to start looking.

YANBU, and given that he has spent just 5 hrs with your DS I think a full day is away from you is too much to ask for. you have evey right to know where he is, lets face it he is not a dad after being absent for 3 years and shouldn't have any rights to dictate things right now.

YADNBU.
I would insist on having that information. Has he suggested it will be a problem to tell you where he is?

Yaddddnbu :)

God Mummy sense.

Good not God

I can understand why you want to know, but wonder what actual benefit there will be to knowing? If something goes wrong, you won't know unless your ex tells you. So knowing the address will only be of benefit if the ex contacts you anyway - and if he contacts you telling you there's problem then it would be unlikely he would then withhold the address at this point.

The only other thing I can think of it that you're worred they will go missing and you won't hear from your ex? But if you were worried about that then that would have also applied on the previous 3 visits?

Thanks for the replies :)

allnew - I was present for the first, within watching distance for the second and only ever 5-10 minutes away for the third visit so I guess I felt safe. I knew where they would be or should be at least.

It's just an uneasy feeling I have about not even knowing where he might be.

DS seems keen so I am happy to let him go. I don't know exactly what I am worried about but yes, I suppose part of me is concerned about DS not being returned - this is completely unfounded though. No hint of this at all in the past.

I'm feeling irrational over it but I still feel I have the right to ask.

He's not replied which isn't uncommon - usually takes days to get back to me. I just wanted to canvas opinions if he does come back angry over this.

Thanks again

Why is he taking days to get back to you? Unless he has spent the last 3 years in a coma or he didnt know you were pregnant he should be groveling at your feet and doing everything in his power to make things up to you for single handedly raising his son for 3 years!

He should not be trying to exert and control over the situation, he has to prove that he is fit to be part of your sons life. this man has no rights whatsoever to make you feel uncomfortable. If he carries on keeping you hanging i would limit contact to supervised visits only and review in 6 months.

It's complicated - he knew about DS and I made it very clear I wanted his involvement but he didn't feel able to be involved until the summer.

I think he and his wife consider their replies quite carefully to be honest. It is very frustrating and I think down right rude but I don't want to upset the applecart so to speak. It's important for DS to see them.

I think I will make it conditional to the visit that I know where he will be. If he decides that he can't share the information then I guess we will need to look at other ways of sorting contact.

Anyway, it's only a inkling that he might be cross about this. He may actually be fine. I just want to be sure of myself if he makes a fuss.

Thanks :)

I too would feel nervous about this and also find the length of time for replies odd...problem is he can tell you where he is going but that may/maynot be true...did you know his parents? also think a day is long based on previous contact-

think you should try and formalise sooner rather than later its clearer for all concerned... at 3 ds is not really a position to be 'keen' unless you make it so, you could calm it down a bit esp if you've been on your own with him I would be wary - do you know why he's suddenly got interested?

sorry don't want to seem paranoid android about it but best take things slow...in my experience

I see what you mean 3rd.

It is going a bit quickly yes. I know that DS being keen isn't the deciding factor just mentioned it because him being concerned or upset doesn't seem to be a problem. The last visit was for 3 1/2 ish hours so he has done quite a block but yes, this would be all day.

I don't think things will ever be formalised - the distance means they won't be down to visit very often at all. There's not going to be a set day/week routine here. I have left it open because it is dependant on them. I can't force them to spend time with him. It took three years to get to this stage even.

As to why now? I think things have settled for him. He claims to have had some kind of breakdown which he is now recovering from. It was quite messy and he refused to be involved right from the start. We weren't together long at all and DS was in no way planned.

I think I feel guilty because I moved away - at the time he was saying he could never be involved and I believed him so moved nearer family for support. But I know that hasn't helped with contact and accept my part in it :(

Oh I don't know. I want things to go smoothly. I firmly believe DS deserves a loving father and he seems to be trying to give him that. But things between us all are very stilted.

If he wanted to have him for the day locally I think I would relax more. I have offered my home for this but they haven't mentioned that so I assume they aren't keen. It just seems so far away.

And I have met his parents a few times and they seemed fine. In fact I have pushed for them to see DS. I feel he is missing out on family and that does make me feel bad. So I may be over anxious to just agree and make things run smoothly.

I was sure you guys were going to tell me i was BU! Now you've made me really question my judgement on this!

Yanbu, even if you wasn't nervous it would still be the sensible thing to do.

I think if you want to support contact then if the parents are only an hour from you then maybe they go for a bit there then come back ....as long as you know where that is, although close to you would be better could they not stay in a hotel near you? as they are going to a hotel anyway

If they are reasonable then you can build time of visit/distance/trust up over a longer period...if he is cross about sharing that information then contact would be a nogo for me .....ds is young slowly is fine -

don't beat yourself up about moving away, as far as you knew you were on your own...moving near support is a sensible move..do either of your parents drive could they be back up if you do need to get somewhere quickly?

Delta, I am normally the first to say one parent is wrong to move away but in your case you moved to give your ds a family. You couldn't stay there alone just in case the wally suddenly decided he wanted to play dad.

Don't beat your self up, you have done nothing wrong. Yes in an ideal world every child will have two loving parents, but you can't make that happen by magic. He has a long way to go to be a dad.

This made me think...

When a child is at school the school is 'in loco parentis' and if a number of the children were being taken for a day trip the school would know where they were going and have contact numbers etc. This is not because they assume the people looking after the kids are going to behave badly or be in an accident it's 'just in case' of the unpredictable on either side.

...I'm not suggesting we should all behave like institutions but what you're saying seems like a home version of the same idea. Is there any possible way you can put across that you'd ask for the same information if DS was going out for the day with another family ie birthday outing to Legoland.

Good luck and hope the trip is a success

Well, still no reply but I didn't expect one yet.

I think I will push the point of needing the information.

I asked nicely, I stated it wasn't personal but he's never been that far from me and I hope they wouldn't be offended.

Anyhow, something even stranger happened today.....I got a card - addressed to me form them. It was a homemade christmas card and all that was inside was a print of a professional family photo they had had taken. No writing, nothing. Sent to me. DS had his gift and card sent last week.

It just seemed very very odd..... obviously the standard family card they are sending out but why on earth would I need a picture of him and his perfect little family?

It almost feels like they are rubbing it in my face. This from the couple who told me the couldn't handle my overly friendly tone of emails a while back...

Had it been addressed to DS I'd understand that.... But they sent his gifts last week including his own card.

This was sent addressed to me.

Maybe they are just trying to be friendly. And a normal card would have been ok but they didn't even write in it. Just sent me a picture of them all happy and laughing. Just seems odd.

I'd upset that applecart a bit. It's beginning to feel - already- that they are the ones taking 'control' of the situation, you don't want to upset them. Sorry, but it really should be the other way around right now - they should be striving to reassure you that they are reliable, contactable, normal people. They are asking you to trust them with your child, when so far all you know about them is that your ex has shown himself to be unreliable as a father. They've been absent all his life while you raised him. Frankly you could insist on supervised contact for months if you wanted to. They certainly aren't in a position to sit there deliberating over what they will accept you asking of them.

I would contact them again saying that you are surprised by their failure to communicate with you by now, and think that it's clear from this that such a big step in contact is probably best left until they feel more confident in communicating with you in the friendly, effective manner required if you are to trust them to take contact forward responsibly.

Reiterate that you will not agree to DS being taken out of your sight at this early stage without having a contact address and phone number, and if they have a problem with this, you would be interested to know why, as it seems a fundamental part if the trust that it is necessary to build between your two families.

Do not get into the habit of rolling over for them in the fear that they might withdraw. If they're going to mess you about, they will. best way to be prepared for that is to make it clear now that you are in charge here, and you won't be pushed about. Don't set up that dynamic. Your ex has a lot of ground to make up, quite frankly- and you don't want to be in a situation in a years time where the perfect family are ganging up on you and dictating contact. Set those boundaries NOW while you can.

Well said talkativejim. Agree with all of that! I wouldnt want my 3 year old gone for the day with someone who is practically a stranger! You are bending over backwards way too much.

I agree with TalkativeJim. You need to take control and set some boundaries. I know you want your DS to have contact with his father but, if they're so inclined, they'll be walking all over you, if you're not careful.

Thank you TalkativeJim. I probably needed to hear that ages ago...

I just really want DS to have all the family love he deserves. But you're right.

He bailed on his son. He stepped away from his responsibilities and then expects to step right in now he fancies himself DS's dad.

But I don't trust he'll always do the right thing by DS yet, he has to earn that trust.

I'm going to have to think about what contact is appropriate at this stage. This is not going to be pretty :(

No no, don't get into thinking of it like that :) it can be PERFECTLY pretty. Hopefully really good! Just start readjusting your 'persona' so to speak (remember: fake it til you make it ;) )

So. You are pleasant, friendly and above all CONFIDENT with them. Next text - 'Lovely photo, thanks. Do send on your address so that I can send you one of DS and me'. If they're thinking to try and set out their stall as the perfect family, that will take the wind out of their sails.

I'd make the decision now that he won't be spending a whole day with them yet. I'm intrigued at the fact that they felt quite assured in telling you that they 'couldn't handle your friendly emails' a while back. Yet now they are sending you a card, with no note? If they can be rude blunt, then so can you. Maybe 'Thanks for the card. I hope this indicates that you feel more confident with a reasonable level of friendliness between us if contact is going to continue in a way that DS and I will be happy with long-term. We need to be able to embrace friendly, open communication to be able to act in DS's best interests when it comes to contact. For the time being, I'd rather continue with short bursts of contact until I'm confident that a more established relationship has been built between all of us.'

They're not comfortable with friendly emails? Then you're not comfortable with sending your child off for the day with strangers who don't feel it's fundamental to gain your trust.

Remember above all : you and DS are the primary family unit, which they are asking to become a part of. If you don't get similar consideration from them, for example in exchanging addresses, cards etc if that's what they want - then all bets will be very quickly off.