To be concerned that the shooter in the US keeps being referred to as Aspergers

[pingu2209]

This worries me, I feel like the press are referring to the shooter's Aspergers are the reason for him flipping out and killing the children and teachers. He clearly had mental issues but Aspergers is not likely to be the issue.

There are so many people with Aspergers or are on the autistic spectrum but this does not go hand in hand with mental issues in terms of agression.

I feel this could end up in a nasty backlash.

He was getting more and more socially isolated. People did not react to him warmly. His own family had special needs of their own.
fwiw, he did go through a goth period. He always said to me that goths were people that were in emotional pain.

this is the danger of watching too much Cracker/CSI etc - people think they are forensic psychs. Yes, people can easily spot those who don't appear to fit in socially. But it's a huge and IMO irresponsible leap to decide social misfit = probably mass murderer.

Well, that's a failing of society unfortunately. If you are truely worried, seek advice but I can't see from what you've said that there is much to go on apart from the voices and many people hear voices... It's not necessarily indicative of serious issues and most certainly not indicative of mass murder, but someone must be involved with him and know?

I expect posters on this thread would argue that there is no correlation between psychopathy and murder too. A willingness to murder as many children as you can must be a mental health problem in that it is abnormal and destructive behaviour which probably shows an inability to feel empathy. That doesn't mean that every person with mental health problems is a potential murderer but I would say mental health problems are a prerequisite. I don't know about a correllation between asd and violent behaviour but I do think mumsnet tends to see disability through rosetinted glasses. Some autistic people have extremely challenging behaviour, react inappropriately to situations and struggle with feeling empathy. A family friend's son has severe autism and has always been very violent towards her. I know the majority of asd people wouldn't seriously hurt anyone but violence can be a symptom of autism and other mental health problems and it isn't helpful to deny that. Of course that doesn't mean asd people don't need support.

Where the hell does goths come into it? Are you on the wind up?

No one is involved with him any more. Or were not when I knew him.

And no I have not done anything about it.

But where is the point when someone does? My guess is that no one will. And no, he may never go on to do anything like mass murder. But when a major incident happens near him, I always slightly hold my breath as to whether it is him.

My point for saying all this, is, I dont expect people thought the young man in America would do it either.

But he did.

Lydia... You are acknowledging and yet ignoring the point. Asd is a spectrum as is all mental and physical illness. You cannot generalise, it takes real knowledge and experience to predict this kind of behaviour in people before it happens and its not an exact science. What's the point? Lock up all people who don't fit sociatel norms or have any mental illness? It's a fact of love unfortunately, but tighter gun laws would help IMO.

People do things all the time that others can't predict. Humans are complex. It can't be stopped entirely without taking away people's human rights just in case... Which is just as bad. We need better professionals and better understanding of mental health issues. We also need guns to be banned.

I object to the use of the word 'violence' when describing physically challenging behaviours in those with severe autism and/or learning disabilities. Violence ascribes an intent which those with learning disabilities do not have. The physically challenging behaviours you see in this group are usually due to frustration/difficulties communicating/fear/anxiety/overload. Not because they plan or set out to hurt someone.

That list of 'Famous people with AS', presented as though it were fact, is pure speculation!?

Saintly, I agree, however, irrespective of intention, sometimes people get hurt. It's not particularly black and white... Which is why pontificating on it is pretty pointless seeing as none of us know the full facts. I don't personally believe anyone is born evil... I believe it's a mixture of things that contribute towards their actions. I certainly think the asd link is a tenuous one.

"fwiw, he did go through a goth period. He always said to me that goths were people that were in emotional pain"

I am in emotional pain after reading that crap

I share your emotional pain, MoG.

FFS.

But the last thing someone with severe autism is going to do is pick up a gun and shoot someone. My teen with severe autism doesn't even know what a gun is, he does (to my surprise) have some understanding of death, but I don't think he has any comprehension of murder. (This is in response to lydia's rather confusing post mixing up challenging behaviours and violence - 2 entirely different things).

Bloody hell, I check another box.

I was a "goth" as well and pretty socially excluded at times. My Mother is a fucking nutter and has many, many problems (and has actually been involved in a murder).

You still haven't said anything that would point to him thinking about mass murder (or murder in the singular either).

i think i need to hide threads like this, my 21 DS has AS and is gentle as a lamb - he is very socially conscientious - he has helped many people, including a person who collapsed at the wheel of a car.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20738732 this is the bbc profile of adam lanza

this all needs to be kept in perspective. how many people with AS have before gone on murderous rampages compared to "normal" or NT people? i would wager that more "normal" or NT people murder every day than AS people do.....

i would hate for there to be a backlash against those with diabilities based on one persons actions who may or may not have been suffering from disability. There are good people and bad people in all walks of life, including those with disability.

I'm concerned that we're getting to the point where we can't acknowledge any of the negative behaviour or traits which go together with certain disabilities and mental health problems. If you can't acknowledge a problem I don't see that you can effectively address it. I agree that if people act violently because of a disability they likely had little control over their actions but nevertheless the result can be just as catastrophic, as it was here. I don't think mentally stable people murder. I don't advocate locking up people with asd or mental health problems (except in very extreme cases where people are legally detained under section). My family friend's son is in a secure home and could not live independently for instance. I would choose the occasional tragedy like this over locking up everyone who fits a certain profile (and ban guns).

I know there's a spectrum. My partner has autistic traits though is not affected socially. I've tutored some great kids with aspergers who wouldn't have hurt a fly.

I just find redefining disability to the point where all associated difficulties are denied unhelpful and illogical.

The only celebs I know for sure have AS are Dan Ackroyd and Daryl Hannah as they have both spoken publicly about their conditions and diagnoses.

I believe people with Asperger's are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators.

Lydia, I am not doing that. I am saying leave it up experts to try and figure it out and stop meddling in shit you don't understand. Sorry of thats rude. I'm exasperated.

I don't know about a correllation between asd and violent behaviour but I do think mumsnet tends to see disability through rosetinted glasses

Really? what do you base that on?

I believe people with Asperger's are more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators

De

*Definitely

I'm the first one to admit I have negative behavior traits, the same as anyone does. Mine are simply exaggerated because of my illness. I accept that, and will happily tell people about it where relevant.

What I don't like is being defined by them.