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AIBU?

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Original poster

to notice that the killings in the USA

380 replies

butisthismyname · 14/12/2012 21:28

Are HUGE NEWS, but the children who are being shot and killed every day in syria, the children who live on the streets and die every day in south america and the children who are dying in third world countries are 'part of the furniture'? I know what has just happened is horrific and sad and awful, but it's just so fucking unfair. It's like the twin towers - OMG the USA is in trouble, lets be outraged ( not negating that but just an example) When will we be as understanding and sympathetic and make what is happening everywhere else in the world as important and newsworthy as this?

OP posts:
Animation · 17/12/2012 11:34

"I simply do not think that outlawing guns is EVER going to work in the US."

@Christmas

Why do they need them?

We manage OK without them in Britain.

Animation · 17/12/2012 11:38

"Ever heard the phrase "guns don't kill people, people kill people" ?? There is a grain of truth in that, you know."

Yes - so why do guns get given to anyone who wants one?

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 11:45

Really? You manage in Britain without them? Last I checked people hunted in Britain and there are people with guns for that purpose. So why do you think those people need them in Britain?? I think if you read my post, I did point out why they were used mainly with the people I knew. Obviously I can't answer for everyone.

If you took the time to educate yourself on this before you debated it, you'd realise that NOT just anyone who wants a gun is "given" one. There are checks and such. Many people that commit crimes with guns obtain those guns illegally - which, as you might realise, is most likely the same way they are obtained when they are used to commit crimes in Britain.

Again, the difference is gun control laws and owner responsibility. There will always be people that obtain guns (in the US AND the UK) illegally for illegal use. I doubt very much that will ever change.

gordyslovesheep · 17/12/2012 11:47

'guns don't kill people - people do' and they'd kill a lot less armed with sticks or egg whisks wouldn;t they - limit access to guns then you may stop people using them

gordyslovesheep · 17/12/2012 11:48

also

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 11:53

Limit access to reading and you'll stop the peasants from uprising.
Limit access to education and you'll stop the lower classes from getting above their station.

sigh... A majority of people are not going to agree to outlawing guns in the states. (wondering how to make it any clearer) In light of that, education, better gun control laws, and owner responsibility/safety training would go a long way in reducing the dangers.

Put good gun control laws in place, enforce them rigorously, and make sure all gun owners are required to have appropriate training in gun safety, and it'd be a lot safer as well.

I think the incident in China illustrates that someone bent on destruction will find a weapon if a gun is not available. Are you going to outlaw knives next? Or egg whisks? Hmm

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 11:56

You do a YouTube link to "Eddie Izzard Monkey with gun" and you expect me to take you seriously in a gun control discussion? Epic fail.

MiniTheMinx · 17/12/2012 11:58

That is fear, I acknowledged that in my post above yours.

My father was a chief petty officer on subs, he then spent another 5 years in Nigeria and a stint in Saudi as an engineer. My mother never carried a gun. She had no need, the vast majority of criminals do have access to guns in the UK. Some do carry guns but that is relative to the fact that we have few people carrying guns overall.

Quite frankly I would rather be shot than have to shoot someone else. End of.

There are an estimated 300 million guns in the U.S. Someone made one hell of a lot of money selling the Americans the idea they need guns and perpetuating the social conditions in which people use them and the fear in which others feel they need them for protection.

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 12:07

You say it's fear, that's your opinion. IMO it's common sense. Some people keep a baseball bat handy, my mother had a gun. She grew up around guns, knew how to use one, and was confident in her ability to use it.

So your mother never carried a gun. So what? Her choice. My mother had one available in the house to her. So what? Again, her choice.

If you would "rather be shot than have to shoot someone else" that is, of course, your choice. That is not my choice.

You obviously have an agenda and are pushing your opinions and ideas onto others. Problem is you're wrong. You are using YOUR ideals and feelings and projecting them onto others and saying you understand what they are thinking. You are so incredibly wrong.

Animation · 17/12/2012 12:08

"You manage in Britain without them? Last I checked people hunted in Britain and there are people with guns for that purpose"

Christmas - yes, in Britain guns are issued to people for hunting purposes only, not for self protection purposes, that is for shooting other people. We manage OK without them for that. So why do Amercans' need guns for this purpose?

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 12:13

Hmmm... so someone in Britain has a gun for "hunting purposes" and you can guarantee they would never ever use it to protect themselves in any situation. Bollocks.

See this.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

Well, that's THAT argument completely blown to bits. Hmm

PolkadotCircus · 17/12/2012 12:19

"I would rather be shot than shoot somebody else" oh really,PMSL at that one.

Sorry I am a mother and I enjoy life.If somebody is going to attempt to murder me I'll fight tooth and nail to stay alive for my children oh and me if you don't mind.I won't be choosy as to which weapon,whatever it took to stay alive I'd wield it-even an egg whisk!The vast majority of people will feel the same.

And what Christmas said at the end-with bells on!

Animation · 17/12/2012 12:25

Christmas - you seem quite defensive. I would like to understand your perspective.

Yes, someone who has a gun for hunting purposes could shoot a person if they so wished, but I'm talking about guns being issued for self protection reasons. In Britain that would be illegal, and we tend to get by without them. Why do people in the USA need them. Do they really need them?

PumpkinPositive · 17/12/2012 12:30

I think the incident in China illustrates that someone bent on destruction will find a weapon if a gun is not available. Are you going to outlaw knives next? Or egg whisks?

They may use another weapon but the killed-to-injured ratio caused by a knife or even a crossbow is unlikely to be anything like what we see in atrocities where guns are used.

MiniTheMinx · 17/12/2012 12:30

If you want guns and you want people to have access to guns and you are happy to live a country with 300 million guns in circulation don't weep when some nutter uses one to kill people.

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 12:50

Nope. Not defensive. Simply explaining (and apparently having to do so repeatedly, as being asked the same questions over and over... do people not READ??) a viewpoint that is different from yours.

PumpkinPositive someone that uses a weapon other than a gun to kill, still kills. Doesn't make the victim any less dead. Yes, the kill to injured ratio can be different, but there's a lot of factors in there. Escape routes of victims, dense population in the immediate vicinity, age of victims, etc. All variables.

MinitheMinx Well, aren't you just charming? Hmm I suppose I should point out that I don't actually LIVE in the US. I live in the UK. But hey, don't let facts confuse you now. Hmm

MiniTheMinx · 17/12/2012 13:00

A knife is for cutting things, a baseball bat is for batting balls and a gun only has one purpose. It's not difficult to understand. people have guns to shoot things, be at bears, tin cans, animals or people. No one needs a gun.

We have foxes in rural and built up areas but we no longer hunt with dogs tearing foxes into strips. Doesn't make fox hunting ok, never did, that's why it was banned.

So what now, people carry guns for self defence and that isn't through fear but common sense Hmm Arm the teachers, suit em up like robo cop so they can defend the children in their care......would that be common sense too?

Animation · 17/12/2012 13:05

"do people not READ??"

Well you sure come across defensive and also patronising Grin

I make no wonder these gun discussions get nowhere.

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 13:08

In your opinion. Plenty of people disagree with you on that.

amillionyears · 17/12/2012 13:10

ChristmasTreegles "My mother had one available in the house to her. So what".

If you mother gets dementia, is the gun taken away?
If your mother has a near relative with severe mental health issues, is the gun taken away?

ChristmasTreegles · 17/12/2012 13:14

Patronising? Nope. Again, just exasperated because people ask the same things over and over, or, as clearly shown by Mini, they make assumptions rather than actually reading someone's posts.

I understand that some people do not want guns available in circulation at all and think they should be outlawed. But I also understand, having grown up in the US, that many people feel differently there. Rather than alienate people completely, I personally feel that there are alternatives that can be brought into effect that would make it much safer.

Being idealistic about it is rather ignoring the reality of the situation IMO.

MiniTheMinx · 17/12/2012 13:16

So am I to assume by this that you take some pride in your mother's ability to use a firearm? I would take pride in my mother's ability to wield a pen but never a gun!

Also, why would you need a gun if someone broke in? what if they didn't have a gun, would it be ok to shoot them?

SantasBigBaubles · 17/12/2012 13:17

Would you really rather be shot than shoot someone else mini are you a parent? Would you rather your child be shot or you do the shooting? If you were in America, you were in Los Angeles... Not one of the nice bits. And you hear drive bys every night. You KNOW that you at some point a crack head will break in to you home. You KNOW this almost for a fact. You can't afford to leave the area,it's your home. Would you consider a gun then?

you don't know. It's easy to play this game safe in your bed in the UK where you haven't got to worry about it. But unless you genuinely believe Americans are all total idiots, and I think this is the problem... many of you seem to think this this... you have to admit there is a reason many Americans keep guns.

I feel safe in my home without a gun, I know my area and I wouldn't have one. I have a friend in NY who after the hurricane felt she wasn't safe anymore there.. she is getting a shot gun in case resources become thin and she has to worry about people breaking in. I think it's a bad idea, but I wasn't there. So I am not going to judge her.

I will say I would rather kill than be killed though. IF some fucker came in to my house he'll probably have a gun. But I will go down fighting. I keep a bat next to my bed and if by any chance he doesn't see it.... I won't stop swinging until I know he isn't ever getting up again. Maybe this makes me a bad person. Maybe. But I don't think it makes me a bad mother

SantasBigBaubles · 17/12/2012 13:18

Mini people don't rob houses without a gun here.

Also, why would you need a gun if someone broke in? what if they didn't have a gun, would it be ok to shoot them?

this won't happen. Trust me

amillionyears · 17/12/2012 13:20

I would move from am area like you describe Santas.
I cannot think of 1 single reason why I would stay there.

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