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Original poster

To wonder when they will ban guns in USA

190 replies

sannaville · 14/12/2012 19:28

Those poor children at Conneticut school :( They mustve been absolutely petrified. When will the USA learn from these horrific shootings and out a ban on guns

OP posts:
OpheliasWeepingWillow · 15/12/2012 08:20

Fair point sahss

I still think Americans are idiots when it comes to their precious guns

OpheliasWeepingWillow · 15/12/2012 08:21

Sorry, meant sashh

Seabright · 15/12/2012 08:31

I was discussing this with an American friend last night. Her view is that this type of incident actually leads to looser gun control beacuse the NRA (massive lobby, massive funds, massive contributions to US polititians who can't get elected without their money) will argue "well, if the teacher had been allowed to be armed, this wouldn't have happened"

So the rules will be relaxed to allow even more people in even more situations to be armed.

AntsMarching · 15/12/2012 09:06

I agree Jossys. But I think guns should have tighter regulations, not an outright ban.

I think the glorification of violence is much more to blame. I'm sure there is a study of the increase of such incidents with the rise of violent computer games. I'll have to see if I can find it.

MadameCastafiore · 15/12/2012 09:29

Mental illness + computer games which glorify guns and violence + living in a fucked up country where people have the right to bear arms = recipe for disaster.

But which part of this should we tackle? Over here it wouldn't have happened because the kid would not have had access to a gun, he would most likely be under CAMHS or AMHS or even in a secure hospital if his fantasies were known to medical staff, maybe even sectioned, the police would have been informed also.

It's hard isn't it but I think stuff like this will happen more and more as kids use games which only show glorified violence and not the absolute horror of what follows that violence for the community and relatives, the shock waves throughout the world and the desolation of the professionals who have to go in as part of their jobs and sort everything out.

TeeElfOnTeeShelf · 15/12/2012 10:05

"I just don't understand when a tragedy such as this occurs, everyone jumps on the weapon. The weapon didnt cause this man to go do what he did. I believe we should take care of the people."

Of course we should take care of the people. But we shouldn't have to take care of the people because this man never should have had access to a gun.

And we jump on the weapon because if it had been a knife, or his fists, or pretty much anything else? Either none or many less would have died.

It's the fact that it was a gun in this idiots hand that caused this to be the mass murder that it was.

I don't understand people who don't understand that.

And I really don't understand anyone who is not in law enforcement have a gun in their house and around their children and grandchildren. I don't care how secure they think the gun is. One minute inattention and someone is dead.

You are 100% allowed your opinion and to voice it. And I am 100% allowed to tell you I disagree and think it's a stupid, ignorant opinion. Just as you are to me.

AntsMarching · 15/12/2012 17:47

Okay Tee. There was really no need to attack me. I can see having a rationale discussion won't happen as you keep making personal remarks about me. I really don't care what you think of me or my opinions.

Thisisaeuphemism · 15/12/2012 18:08

"i guess that's me looking for the root cause rather than the superficial solution"

Hilarious to position yourself as a great rational thinker surrounded by hysterics ants marching.

Is it so hard to understand that there are middle class white boys with a grievance everywhere- but it's only in a country that demands and worships guns that a pathetic little twat can kill so many people in such a short space of time?

TeeElfOnTeeShelf · 15/12/2012 18:12

Feel free to report me for personal attacks Ant if you feel that way.

But it might serve you better if you took them on-board as suggestions for how wrong your opinions are.

AntsMarching · 15/12/2012 18:53

Actually Tee I do think you we're personal given that you took to calling names. Not sure how that was a positive suggestion that would change my view point. I won't report you, you know what you said and if you think it was fine then more power to you. Like I said, I don't care what you think of me.

Thisis. I wasn't saying I am a great rational thinker. Just that no rational discussion is going to occur when people start to attack me personally.

But I do think that the media/public get whipped up into hysteria when something like this happens rather than digging down to the root of the problem.

Yes, I agree that if guns were less readily available then you could have less killings. But I don't think banning guns will stop all killings, it hasn't in the UK. I am all for tighter gun controls,which I have said previously.

That is my opinion, that is all. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me and I'm happy to be convinced otherwise, but with strong rational arguments that are free of personal attacks.

sassytheFIRST · 15/12/2012 18:57

The thing about many Americans' possession of guns is that they are not locked away. They are kept loaded in glove boxes and bedside cabinets - in case of an intruder or attacker.

McChristmasPants2012 · 15/12/2012 19:11

IMO banning guns will never stop shootings.

Most gun owners don't go around pulling a gun at people, that's why I think America and any other country should have tighter control.

MajesticWhine · 15/12/2012 19:12

This article I'm linking to is satirical and may not be to everyone's taste but it may amuse.

newsthump.com/2012/12/15/us-national-rifle-association-calls-for-ban-on-schools/

CoteDAzur · 15/12/2012 19:14

"IMO banning guns will never stop shootings"

It will stop shootings by teenage shooters acting out their teenage angst who wouldn't otherwise have easy access to firearms.

TeeElfOnTeeShelf · 15/12/2012 19:19

If you don't care what I think of you, why do you keep bringing it up?

Hmm
KitchenandJumble · 15/12/2012 19:20

Sadly, I think that gun control will never happen in the US, at least not in the forseeable future. The NRA is an extremely powerful political organization. I do hope that a real conversation can begin about issues surrounding gun ownership and gun violence in the US, as Obama signaled yesterday. Personally, I would be in favour of extremely strict gun control.

I teach at a university in the US. A couple of years ago the state legislature considered a bill which would have allowed people to carry guns on college and university campuses. The president of my university went to the statehouse and said, "If you want me to get down on my knees and beg you not to pass this bill, I will do that" (or words to that effect). Thank God, the bill never got past the committee stage.

BTW, applying the words of the Second Amendment to personal gun ownership is a relatively recent phenomenon. Prior to the late 20th century, it was generally accepted that "the right to bear arms" referred only to state militias.

flippinada · 15/12/2012 19:38

I don't know if anyone has posted this on thread (and if I have missed it apologies), but the guns used used by the perpetrator of this hideous crime were legally owned by his mother. This has been reported by a number of sources.

I also agree that the issue of gun ownership is not the only question that needs to be asked. BUT. I'm sure the majority of gun owners in the US would never consider using their weapons to do harm but the problem is the weapons are there and people can get hold them, so why not remove the availabllity of these weapons.

Also If you look at the perpertrators of these crimes (spree killings) they are overwhelmingly (but not exclusively) white, middle class males. These guys really do like to spread their rage and hatred around. If they're suffering, well lets make sure a whole bunch of other people get to share.

AntsMarching · 15/12/2012 19:50

Ummm...in response to the latest post you made. Hmm

AntsMarching · 15/12/2012 20:04

Kitchen. You have a very sensible president.

The NRA are scarily powerful.

I'd like to see criteria set out for "necessity" of gun ownership and strictly applied to all permits issued. I don't know what that criteria should be, but that's where I'd like to see a discussion start.

monsterchild · 15/12/2012 20:08

It wouldn't make a difference. It's very easy to get anything smuggled over a land border, just like with drugs, if there's a demand, someone will sell them.

Pedallleur · 15/12/2012 20:36

Switzerland has compulsory military service for men 18-50 and requires they keep their gun(s) at home and I don't think they have a shoot-fest. A nutter with a gun is still a nutter and they would use something else. It was a car in Cardiff the other week. Guns are banned in Britain but yet there are regular shootings. Constitutional lawyers would make a fortune in the US at an attempt to re-write the bill of rights. Right to bear arms is #2 I think

cuillereasoupe · 15/12/2012 20:43

In Switzerland they don't keep ammo at home. They have had one mass shooting in recent years though.

ll31 · 15/12/2012 20:50

Say they banned them, how would they enforce it, would be impossible. Think
They'd be better off putting more research into mental health services and research, would probably not maybe stop many if any, but would be better use of resources.

ProphetOfDoom · 15/12/2012 21:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squoosh · 15/12/2012 21:37

I disagree hugely ll31. Why can't they tackle both gun availability and mental health services? It doesn't need to be one or the other. Of course it would be a slow process but it's a process that must be undertaken.

And not everyone who carries out a mass murder is mentally ill even though it's comforting for people to think that is the case. Sane people commit atrocities too.