to be shocked that less than half of people in London are white

[Ilovecoffeeandchocolate]

I was reading the article below and was shocked to see how much this country especially London has changed over the last ten years and feel concerned that immigration is too high for what is an already overcrowded island especially in the south east!

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/dec/11/census-2011-religion-race-education?intcmp=239

I've never had a spreadsheet before

But with this thread, it just fills itself in

Marvellous

Why is there this assumption that 'immigrants' are of a non-white colour and are somehow illegally here, up to no good, unemployed or not working, and scumming off the nhs etc?

In my household there are 3 non whites. The two mixed race children are British passport holders as is their white British father. Me, the immigrant pays a lot of taxes and have been supporting this household financially since my White British husband got made redundant.

He never claimed job seekers because he decided to set up his own business.

I haven't read the article but I wonder whether the stat about number of non British born people could actually be a stat based on the fact that there are so many British people who've lived overseas, had children overseas and have now returned. So they would be classed as foreign born but to British parents who happened to be overseas then!

Does it really matter? My first thought was 'white AND british' so that cuts out big chunks of the community for starters. There are plenty of chinese, african, asian... British folk around, and white Irish, American, German, French (good god, try walking around South Ken - it's like little Paris there)...

I worked in the City and the vast majority of staff wouldn't fit into the 'white and british' category. OK so maybe City Folk aren't exactly 'the right sort' of people we want around! I dont think there are 'millions of foreign unskilled workers' over here and I think the NHS would fall over without staff from overseas.

When did the royal family change its name to Wimdsor again?

There's nothing ignorant about questioning what you are being told. I'm STILL waiting for someone to explain how mass immigration has benefited the normal working-class people of this country. Something tangible please, not ethereal bullshit about "diversity" and foreign food etc. We have had foreign foods in this country for centuries, without the kind of immigration we've had in the last decade.

OK, financial impact of immigration to the UK:

University of Oxford says positive: migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk

House of Lords says positive: image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2007/10/16/Economic.pdf

Institute of Public Policy Research says positive: www.ippr.org/publication/55/1352/paying-their-way-the-fiscal-contribution-of-immigrants-in-the-uk

Do you need more?

The only negative study I'm aware of is the one put out by MigrationWatch which uses highly dubious assertions to challenge all the other research.

That's not really the whole story is it, thirdfromleft.

Fiscal studies are one thing, but there are other issues, such as employment, pressures on housing, schooling, and so on.

People in sectors facing competition from immigration (pretty much all low-paid jobs, plus IT, and others) will tell you that immigration depresses wages and reduces job opportunities.

Often immigrants doing low-paid work are objectively better at the job than native workers, because the immigrants may be more motivated, better qualified, more highly skilled, yet still happy with NMW as it would be a lot of money where they came from. Obviously that is good news for employers, but it's not great for those on the dole.

When you say 'mass immigration' what exactly do you mean? How many immigrants are we talking about?

Does anyone keep hearing "what did the Romans ever do for us" when cozy tpes?

It's been answered several times over cozy.

What type of immigration? West Indian in the 50s and 60s when unemployment was very low and we needed cheap labour? Or finacial whiz kids in the City? Regufees from war or Ghurkas? Or Romanians and Poles? French and German?

I think cozy9 and dinky have taken a wrong turning somewhere on the internet and are meant to be on the BNP forum.

Let's see if any of you loony liberals would be happy being the only white English family living in a road in Harlesden, North London, as mine were. Thankfully, we moved to north Norfolk. Lovely

OMFG! yes, you were right to run away fast from all of those scary black folk!

Have pity on me, Im the only white person in my house !

Ha!@Romans

As soon as the phrase 'PC' is mentioned my eyes glaze over, I'm afraid.

if we get 'PC Gawn Mad' I'll have a full house...bingoooo!

I haven't seen a single answer. How has mass immigration improved life for normal (working-class) people in Britain? I'm not talking about those working in the city or in other professional occupations that have benefitted from immigration. How has it benefitted people working in supermarkets, or in factories, or in agriculture, or in construction? Or those trying to buy their first home, or on council waiting lists, or waiting for NHS treatment?

It's all very well for the middle-classes to go on about having 8 different ethnic restaurants on their high street, or being able to have a nanny AND a cleaner, or being able to get a cheap extension on their house. But they are the minority, they shouldn't be able to run the country for their benefit.

Oh, I see 'loony liberals' has been used already...excellent!

Cozy, seriously? I'm not saying others aren't entitled to their views or might have arguments to back them up - however much I may disagree with those arguments.

However by dismissing those with opposing views as 'just PC' you're dismissing the idea that they too may have a solid basis for their views.

However it's clear from some commenters on this thread that there are those who object to immigration because they fear living alongside people from a variety of other ethnicities. It's not an argument I think should shape public policy and one I think has a lot if logical holes, but I recognise it as one of the arguments in this discussion. There are also those concerned about economic impacts of migration based on what they've read, and those are valid concerns even though I don't agree based on the balance of evidence. But I again I don't contemptuously dismiss the argument with a cheap and easy label.

There's a recent NIESR report on the economic and employment impacts of immigration, as well as numerous pre-recession UK and more recent internationally-focused studies on the economic net benefits, if you're truly interested.

It makes me laugh when I read threads like this.
I?ve read numerous threads on MN about people not having enough money to feed their kids, having to wait hours at A&E, no hospital beds or care for OAPs, no school places for children and no jobs for graduates or school leavers, the UK is becoming more and more crowded (mainly in the SE) it?s not sustainable, especially when we are only letting in unskilled workers. Most of the educated middle class are leaving to live elsewhere and the wealthy won?t invest in the UK because of the high Taxes so where will it leave us in 10-20 years time?

As a white Londoner, I can't say that it has ever crossed my mind that I am in a minority, or that if I did trouble ,yself with that kind of thought, that it wouldn't actually matter. I am so proud that my wonderful city represents every nation on earth, no matter what percentage that equates to and that we do occasionally do amazing things where we're not ignorant or scared, but look out for each other. We're great.

My favourite ever comment from the boyfriend of a friend of mine -

"too many immigrants in this country now. I'm not prepared to raise my family in these conditions. I'm emigrating"....

To another country...
Where they would be immigrants..

I am just imaginimg the good people of Norfolk "those blody Londorners move in, pushing up house prices, taking school places amd demanding a Starbucks om every bloody corner."

JoanByers, first you need to decide on the argument. Either immigrants are lazy welfare seeking leeches, or they are job-stealing slaves. It amazes me how many people argue both of these points simultaneously.

Second, if you actually read the studies you will see that factors such as housing costs and job displacement are factored in.

Third, job creation is not a zero-sum game. If all the foreign owned business in the UK closed tomorrow, the economy would collapse. Economies grow and shrink with their openness to talent.

Fourth, I am leaving the discussion since I am tired of having the same argument with under-informed, small-minded individuals who refuse to believe that people like me could be a positive force for their economy.

"45% were white British"
That is because there are shed loads of rich (white) Americans working for the Hedge Funds, Merchant Banks and Accountants.

OP You are racist. Grow Up.

(white non British)

Oh, closely followed by the classic:

"I mean, it's not as if we went round India building churches, is it?"

When you say immigration has benefitted the country, what exactly does that mean? If it has only benefitted those at the top, while at the same time negatively effected normal working-class people, can that be said to be a benefit? I honestly can't see any benefit to my life or the lives of people around me. Look at all the unemployment, underemployment, housing problems etc we have at the moment. Do you honestly think immigration has no part to play in this? Can you honestly say that wages in many professions have not been suppressed by immigration? There are many jobs that once paid enough to raise a family but now pay NMW (that then has to be topped up by tax credits). Is this really a good thing?

I am the only British-born person in my house. I live with two recent immigrants.

They happen to be my children, and are white and have British citizenship, but on the census form I had to tick the boxes for 'not born in the UK' and 'arrived in UK within last five years'.

Raw statistics can be quite misleading.

Oh, I see thirdfromleft has been really kind and provided some links. I'm not sure how much they go into a answering your definition of 'normal working-class people', though. Can working-class people not live in big cities?