to be shocked that less than half of people in London are white

[Ilovecoffeeandchocolate]

I was reading the article below and was shocked to see how much this country especially London has changed over the last ten years and feel concerned that immigration is too high for what is an already overcrowded island especially in the south east!

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/dec/11/census-2011-religion-race-education?intcmp=239

I'll give you an example cozy, it gives xenophobic racist fools something to moan about instead of accepting that england is changing. Maybe London is ahead of the game but it's happening whether you like it or not.

I'm in East London and love it, as someone else said, bring it on, bring more immigration so soon we won't be able to hear the bnp/ukip idiots because their voices will be drowned out.

"I mean, it's not as if we went round India building churches, is it?"
There are more Indians in Britain now than there were British people in India at the height of the Raj. And the same people that are frothing at the mouth immigrationists tend to think the Raj was "terrible colonialism". It's ridiculous!

Stuffingballs, I dont have a problem with skin colour I have a problem with too many people flooding the country

"Often immigrants doing low-paid work are objectively better at the job than native workers, because the immigrants may be more motivated, better qualified, more highly skilled, yet still happy with NMW as it would be a lot of money where they came from. Obviously that is good news for employers, but it's not great for those on the dole."

Joan - so, based on your analysis above the actual issues are not caused by migrants but by certain workers being more highly motivated and therefore better at the job than those who are less motivated. How is this an immigration and not just a general employment issue?

The 'coming over here, taking our jobs' brigade - could one of you please explain how the immigrant 'takes' a job from a non-immigrant, when employees are 'chosen' by employers?

What a wired thread. I think many people agree that immigration should be tightened. Are there are predictions for when this 'white british' will actually BE the minority, as one poster referred to?

"I'm in East London and love it, as someone else said, bring it on, bring more immigration so soon we won't be able to hear the bnp/ukip idiots because their voices will be drowned out. "
Are none of the immigrants racist then? I think you are in for a surprise at some point!

Dinky, dinky, dinky...oh dea

The NHS is held togetjer by international doctors who fill skills shortages in the UK...and nurses who will work for shitty agency conditions because British-trained nurses wont, or are off coining it in Oz or wherever.

The lack of care for OAPs and the vulnerable in this country is not the fault of immigrants or non-white Brits (which this thread was originally about, no?). Look at your British govt - this farcical coalition that can barely be arsed to hide its contempt for the NHS or social care system we should be so proud of in the UK.

The SE and London are 'crowded' because London is a global centre of commerce. Money isnt made in Norfolk, sorry about that. And far from 'flooding out of London', more people than ever chose to STAY here in the last 12 months. The figures bucked recent trends- perhaps because people NEED the jobs that London provides.

And as for 'only letting in unskilled workers'...what planet are you on? Put down your BNP manifesto and educate yourself.

Who said "only letting in unskilled workers"?

The NHS could cope without mass immigration, skilled overseas workers such as Doctors and nurses have been coming to Britain for decades.

Global recession - that is why the country is in the shits. You could also argue that wages for the men have beem supressed by women doing the jobs for less. Or that young people (lower minimum wage) are stealing the jobs from older people.

I find that most people who start the 'it would all be fine if it wasn't for these foreigners' comments just have their hamds out and want something for nothing which they perceive to be their "right".

Cozy, that NIESR report I referenced discusses in some detail the effect (or lack of effect) of immigration on unemployment levels, particularly youth unemployment.

In the meantime, I don't think it makes a great deal of sense to draw parallels between immigrants to the UK you claim are dragging down wages with the monied and immensely powerful ruling class in India during the Raj. The ethnic diversity of Parliament may not support that particular thesis.

My favourite bit a racism ever was someone complaining "they" were

"coming over here and stealing our names "

Based on overseas call centre working adopting western names for work.

I loved it. Because, they are right...........what happens when we use up "Kevin"? Then we'll be sorry............

As long as everyone plays by the rules, pays their taxes and abides the law, who cares if they're green with purple spots! Personally I find any generation of immigrants to be (by majority) hardworking and honest. I saw this on the news earlier and was waiting for some DMesque response to come along!

It says something that CIF on the Guardian actually has a more balanced discussion than this site!

Right, seeing as no-one on the 'coming over here...' side can be bothered to answer my questions, I am just going to shout say one thing:

"WHAT ABOUT THE GOATS? WILL NO-ONE THINK OF THE GOATS?"

Out of interest Cozy, if you woke up in charge tomorrow, what would be your criteria for chucking people out or stopping people come in?

Money isnt made in Norfolk, sorry about that
ha!

JoanByers, first you need to decide on the argument. Either immigrants are lazy welfare seeking leeches, or they are job-stealing slaves. It amazes me how many people argue both of these points simultaneously.

Why is it amazing?

Immigrants from Pakistan have very little in common with immigrants from Poland, one set of immigrants will bring a different set of problems, and benefits, from another set.

Second, if you actually read the studies you will see that factors such as housing costs and job displacement are factored in.

How does a study factor in that I can no longer earn as much as I could in my chosen trade, or that I can't afford to buy a house? It's nonsensical to say to somebody 'Your concerns about immigration are irrelevant, this study shows that it is fiscally positive', when faced with individual problems caused by immigration, such as a primary school where most children don't speak English, or are an in area plagued by a foreign gang.

Third, job creation is not a zero-sum game. If all the foreign owned business in the UK closed tomorrow, the economy would collapse. Economies grow and shrink with their openness to talent.

We get lots of people coming from Eastern Europe, by chance of EU membership, and we get lots from South Asia based on family ties.

Neither is based on talent.

Things like the non-dom scheme, which attracts the very wealthy, and the highly-skilled migrant scheme are designed to attract talent, and job creators.

We were not festering a decade ago, our economy was not collapsing, on the countrary it was doing very well, so this idea that we needed 3 million immigrants is absurd. Post-war Britain was very possibly a different story, but we already had a large degree of diversity a decade ago.

I agree with the Economist magazine.
No restriction on arrivals
But no benefits for the first two years
and zero tolerance of crime - instant deportation

means we'll get the dynamic immigrants who will add to our economy
excellent

looook! look what I found

all my dentists have been EU nationals - our whole practice is made up of mainly Portuguese and Spanish newly qualified dentists - so no massive waiting lists for free dental care - that is one benefit

Can't we just deport whingers? That would make the rest of is happy.

British Goats - very good - they look a bit off white though - are they London Goats

"Joan - so, based on your analysis above the actual issues are not caused by migrants but by certain workers being more highly motivated and therefore better at the job than those who are less motivated. How is this an immigration and not just a general employment issue?"

Well obviously there are problems with people's attitude in this country. You only need to walk down the street or ago into some classrooms to see that.

But importing people because the native workers are too lazy is really not the solution to that problem.

You end up like Saudi Arabia then.

I would suggest that we ensure our existing population can turn up for work in the morning and sell a sandwich or two, rather than importing 3 million more to do it.

I would actually care if people were green with purple spots. I think that's weird and I would avoid them. Sorry to be racist ...

It is a very lazy argument just to accuse someone of being racist rather than debating immigration in a proper manner, the fact that over 3 million people came to this country in the last 10 years compared to the previous ten years when it was just oner 1 million is interesting and of concern if we are not able to support such a large rise in population.

In ten years the population of England and Wales has risen by 7% to 56 million, that is clearly a large increase. if we don't have the infrastructure to cope, of course it is a big problem, this has been shown with the pressure put on schooling and the NHS.

As I have said before I am mixed race and my mother was born abroad and have enjoyed living in country that overall provides me with a great standard of living however as someone who lives in the SE i have seen how over crowed it is.

We need a sensible debate on immigration perhaps we are not strict enough, I could not just go and live in the USA or Australia as i would need to meet much stricter criteria. When do we say we cant house/educate/care for any more people when we have 60m, 70m, 80m there must be a limit!