MIL and DH have effed up xmas

[Clate]

Arrrrrgh yet another MIL rant.

MIL's work means that sometimes she is very flush and sometimes she's really hard up. Back when you could self-certify for mortgages she got in way over her head and although she's nearing retirement age she's in a precarious situation financially. But the sums her work commands are very high.

When I met DH he had taken out a loan in his name for MIL (she did pay it back but couldn't get it in her own name). When we had DCs I did put my foot down and say that couldn't happen again but over the years we have helped MIL out (she has always paid it back).

MIL has always been very generous. For example she let friends live rent-free in one of her properties for two years. She has bought the DCs lovely things over the years and she is the first to help out a friend in need. Unfortunately when she hit this difficult patch and mortgage lending tightened up and property prices went down she couldn't help people out so much and lost a lot of 'friends'. Of course I am furious on her behalf.

But there's this pattern where she over-promises. She made a big deal about paying for a specific venue for our wedding and then when it was too late to cancel said she didn't have the money. So we paid - not the end of the world but it's not what we would've chosen if we'd known we were paying for it ourselves.

And she has insisted on buying the DCs 'big ticket' items for xmas - a kindle fire for DS1, an xbox as a shared present - but actually we paid for them, she said she would pay us back. And she hasn't despite prompting from DH.

She owes us over £1000 now and with xmas coming up it's money we really need. She just sent us what she and FIL and BIL want for xmas, and ideas for DH's grandma, and we can't afford it (£100 cashmere jumper which we would normally love to get). Because we need her to pay us back!

DH feels he can't 'go on about it' because she is so stressed. He tried to bring it up and she said "just email me how much it is and I'll sort it" and that was a fortnight ago.

I am SO annoyed at DH and MIL and it's going to cast a massive pall over xmas. I can't even get my own parents the present they asked for.

She is a contractor so she has to pay the people she employs to help her (don't want to get too specific)

She invested heavily in property, remortgaged at the height of the market and used the money to keep her business going - she is now in negative equity several times over and has to make massive payments on the mortgages as she's nearly 65.

I have learnt a lot from this thread, thankyou for the responses!

She invested heavily in property, remortgaged at the height of the market and used the money to keep her business going - she is now in negative equity several times over and has to make massive payments on the mortgages as she's nearly 65.

Can I suggest that you do not lend her anymore money, any business that employs people, has cashflow problems and she has to inject personal cash to keep it going, isn't going to be going for much longer. A crash is coming, I thought she was a writer with large royalty cheques every so often but a contractor employing others????? She has no business sense if this is how she manages the money for the business. Scary.

She certainly has earnt that much.... it could be that those days are long gone but she can't accept it.

I need to grow a pair and stop the cycle though!

Oh I could write a whole other thread on us lending her money! DH will always want to help her so far as he is able, she's his mum. I think I am so annoyed about this because I see it as the thin end of the wedge.

She may be a great contractor but it doesn't sound that she is good at financial management. Do not lend her more than you can afford to lose, your families security depends on that. Your DH has responsibilities to you and your children.

Ah I think I get it.

She has some assets which consist of properties in negative equity that she can't sell as they are worth less than nothing (the price she would get for selling them is less than the amount that they are mortgaged for plus any equity that she originally put into them).

She also needs to pay builders and such like that are improving them ready to sell.

She could rent them out, if necessary at a slightly lower than market rent in order to get some cash in. This is where the extra money should come from, not from you!

She needs to get some professional advice about how to manage the money situation. I suggest a long visit to a decent accountant (preferably on that specialises in property) would be a good idea.

Fancy Christmas presents are not really a priority.

She needs tenants. Not to sponge off you.

Agree with those that say take back the gifts, as lovely as an x box is it isn't an essential item.

£100 is a lot of money to spend on adults we haven't even spent that on my DSC.

I have got my mum a kindle but I'm an only child and very close to my mum, plus I saved my tesco vouchers to pay for it and got it when they had them on offer for £49.

If you can easily afford to spend that level of money then great if you can't and are in debt as mil is then imo it is just irresponsible to buy big expensive gifts.

I also think mil is being a cheeky cow emailing you a list of what she wants for christmas when she owes you money I'd be tempted to email back saying that she won't be getting any gifts since you are £1000 out of pocket because of her!

You need to stop "enabling" her behaviour and she needs to grow up

I spend about £15 on my DB (x 2) & DSIL, £30 on DN (x 2). My DF doesn't like gifts so he doesn't get one & I usually spend about £50 on my DM. My DP likes to be spolit (eyes to heaven emoticon) and we spend about £200 on each other, but we have no children to buy for.

His family gives lists, which I think is odd & he buys his DM & DF gifts up to about £150 each too & they do the same back to him. Along with gifts for his extended family. Barking if you ask me!

No one buys our cat £30 gifts just because we have no kids!!

You need to stop acting all helpless abut your MIL's behaviour.

You say upthread that she "insisted" about the x-box. How did she insist? Did she frogmarch you to the shop, drag you to the counter and force you to buy the x-box for her to claim to have bought your children?

If someone wants to buy someone else a present, then it is fairly customary for that person to actually go out and buy it, not insist that someone else pays for it and then take the credit. You say she is very generous - she is only generous if she is actually footing the bill. It seems to me that she is doing very nicely out of you - she looks good in front of the DCs and you actually pay.

Your whole family seems to have a very odd view of Christmas - usually the children are the focus and the adults get smaller gifts, unless there is a specific reason for an adult to get something bigger. We generally spend around £30 on SIL/BIL between them and we buy for their kids. We spend a bit more on younger SIL as she is much younger - there is a very big age gap - usually about £50. We spend about £100 on the PILs between them - we try to get them something nice as they do such a huge amount for us during the year. We don't buy for any other adults.

The whole scenario is making me shudder a bit as it is just like some relatives of mine. He earns alot but in dribs and drabs. When they have money they spend every penny of it on luxuries and then they struggle to pay the bills the rest of the time. He also talks his income up - it is always the headline figure that he says he earns, but by the time you deduct all the expenses, he actually earns about a quarter of what he says he earns. They can be generous when they are flush with cash, but when they are short, everyone else finishes up subsidising them, eg MIL is asked to take the kids somewhere specific and then finishes up paying for everything and never being reimbursed, or they come over, offer to treat everyone to takeaway and then never pay back the person who goes to collect it.

But if you ever challenged them on it, they would be quick to point out all the stuff they have done for other people, while conveniently forgetting everything that has been done for them.

I meant to say that I don't see a problem with lists per se. DP instigated lists a few years ago when it became clear that he was the most difficult person to buy for. He is also ridiculously organised so whenever he thinks of a present idea during the year he makes a note of it.

His own list is always stuff that you could buy either cheaply or spend a bit more, so if he has cufflinks on his list (which he does every year as he loses them!) I might buy them and spend a reasonable amount on a nice pair, or his parents might get him a nice-ish pair, or his sister might get him a couple of cheap, everyday ones.

He also has lists of ideas for other people and will ask if there is anything in particular anyone wants and add it to the list. The rest of us then use his lists to buy for each other and take the credit.

[lazy and unimaginative emoticon]

Madness. Pure madness. Since we started having children the adults in the family no longer get presents (except the grad parents). We spend about 15-20 per head on neices and nephews.

You all sound completely fucked up about money.

Clate your MIL has not been savvy anyone who works as a contractor should always keep money back to tide over the quiet times. She has just spent when she has money, albeit on other people and borrowed when she hasn't. Do not let this continue she has to learn to manage her money and budget.

Ignore everyone telling you that you are bonkers for what you spend all families are different and if you can afford it no problem.

Tell MIL you are returning the gifts and maybe a repayment will materialise

Thanks for the responses.

Everyone is different and every family does different things for xmas. Getting one thing for X amount rather than a few things for Y amount is what our families do for adults. The DCs do very well and TBH the whole setup has never been flagged as unusual among people we know IRL!

We have decided to give the DCs the XBox from us and return the kindle. It's not like MIL owing us is going to push us over the edge of anything, I think (after a big talk with DH), I am getting very uneasy about this. Lending her anything when she pays it back is fine but I am anticipating a slide into something else.

I am also very concerned about what she will do at retirement and don't want to perpetuate the cycle of her expecting DH to help her out financially.

But DH wants to help her out and always will. I think what happened here was I had a taste of it being detrimental to our family (it hasn't been before really), and am looking ahead.

He thinks I am being unfair and MIL will turn things around because she has before. I am not so sure.

But it's not really about Xboxes.

I don't know for sure - but she insists my mum and dad have a picture of the dog in the same frame as the DCs and calls him their cousin! It is sort of a joke? Or maybe not?

It is a bit like trading - I can see that.

Surely everyone is different?

My family is small and it appears we spend quite a lot more that others. I spend approximately £100-£120 (around £200 on Ds) for each of the family members I buy for. DM, Dsis & Grandma (Dgm?!) Apart from my grandma & Ds (who spend approx £20 each present) they spend approx the same back.

If someone wants something particular big they can ask for others to club together so xbox, iPhone, Tv etc would be main present. On the other hand he has no one else to buy him gifts.

I don't buy for friends, apart from the obligatory secret Santa at work.

Works for us