MIL and DH have effed up xmas

[Clate]

Arrrrrgh yet another MIL rant.

MIL's work means that sometimes she is very flush and sometimes she's really hard up. Back when you could self-certify for mortgages she got in way over her head and although she's nearing retirement age she's in a precarious situation financially. But the sums her work commands are very high.

When I met DH he had taken out a loan in his name for MIL (she did pay it back but couldn't get it in her own name). When we had DCs I did put my foot down and say that couldn't happen again but over the years we have helped MIL out (she has always paid it back).

MIL has always been very generous. For example she let friends live rent-free in one of her properties for two years. She has bought the DCs lovely things over the years and she is the first to help out a friend in need. Unfortunately when she hit this difficult patch and mortgage lending tightened up and property prices went down she couldn't help people out so much and lost a lot of 'friends'. Of course I am furious on her behalf.

But there's this pattern where she over-promises. She made a big deal about paying for a specific venue for our wedding and then when it was too late to cancel said she didn't have the money. So we paid - not the end of the world but it's not what we would've chosen if we'd known we were paying for it ourselves.

And she has insisted on buying the DCs 'big ticket' items for xmas - a kindle fire for DS1, an xbox as a shared present - but actually we paid for them, she said she would pay us back. And she hasn't despite prompting from DH.

She owes us over £1000 now and with xmas coming up it's money we really need. She just sent us what she and FIL and BIL want for xmas, and ideas for DH's grandma, and we can't afford it (£100 cashmere jumper which we would normally love to get). Because we need her to pay us back!

DH feels he can't 'go on about it' because she is so stressed. He tried to bring it up and she said "just email me how much it is and I'll sort it" and that was a fortnight ago.

I am SO annoyed at DH and MIL and it's going to cast a massive pall over xmas. I can't even get my own parents the present they asked for.

DSis thinks her dog understands all about giving and receiving gifts at xmas?

Sounds like your kids don't need any more stuff, perhaps that's where to start.

Every family is different and it depends on budgets. I remember being about 14 and reading in my copy of Just 17 an interview with this girl who got loads of Chanel make up in her stocking. I was just amazed that anyone would get THAT much at Christmas.

Don't see a problem wiht the dog thing tbh. Again, families are quirky and if that is the norm in your family then fine!

But it has to be affordable ... and paying for your MIL to give your DCs an X-Box which she can't afford isn't on. However quirky your family is

Sod the thirty ridiculous quid on the dig.
She's earnt £500k a year and she still has a mortgage?!? WTF?!?

We only buy for the children of family as it is a right royal pain in the arse to buy for adults who have their own homes and fairly decent incomes so if they want or need something they tend to buy it as the time and not put it on some sort of adult letter to santa. Most of the family children now are teens so they all prefer a bit of cash so this year we each just give each others children an agreed amount, makes christmas alot easier and we dont all end up with stuff we dont want, need or have to go out to buy.

Dig = dog

Hi everyone,

Just popping in with a reminder of our talk guidelines, and to say if you have any concerns about a poster, do get in touch with us, rather than taking it up on the thread.

Has anyone done that?

You all need to get a grip tbh.

You are all spending beyond your means. My business makes 80% of the yearly profits in December. That's the nature of the business.

Across the year we do ok.

What we don't do is spend all our money and spend the rest of the year skint.
Your mil should stop trying yo be popular and spending money left, right and centre when she has it and borrowing when she doesn't. She is living beyond her means.

she should be saving when she is earning loads for the times she has nothing.

Dh and you mil haven't ruined Christmas. What's happened is a produst of your living arrangements which seems to be 'spend spend spend and when you run out borrow off family and then spend spend spend.'

Christmas is not ruined because the kids aren't getting a kindle fire.

It is very easy for your MIL to be generous when she is spending someones elses money!

£100 for adults is insane.

We have a £20 limit in our family. I suggest you tell them that from now on you will only be spending £20 per adult, as you cannot afford more.

Return the Xbox and the Kindle, and subtract it from what your MIL owes you, and tell her to sort Christmas presents for her grandchildren herself.

"She's earnt £500k a year and she still has a mortgage?!? WTF?!? "

How is it possible to be in debt if you earn 500k PA?

Even if it was occasionally, that would last most families foe years!!

You really have to stop relying on her for promises. If she's says she'll buy such and such say yes that's nice but don't rely on it. I wouldn't lend her any more money. But it's too late now from what you say. But you'll just have to be a lot more careful in the future. People should spend what they can afford on Christmas.

Erm, the Xmas present thing is odd, sorry. Our family works on the basis we only spend a certain amount on each person. The adults ought to be too grown up to expect expensive things from one another, and the children don't need loads of stuff or to have their expectations grown. That's actually the case for most families I know, with exceptions made between couples and sometimes if someone is being given a special present. The spending cap varies from family to family. In mine, we'd often club together to buy someone one big thing. And while people invite present suggestions from recipients, NO ONE sets out one expensive item then expects another person to buy it.

Not that I am making a big thing of it but your posts convey lots of people caught up in a spending trap/huge expectations which is helping to feed money problems and financial dysfunction. Given where your PIL are, I would be having a serious chat, refusing to lend again ever and not accepting or specifying any expensive items.

I get a token gift from my parents...maybe £10 And the rest if the family do secret Santa.
The money is spent in the children.
And as for spending £30 on a dog...words fail me....

diddl - very easily if you a) let people live in a house you own (and are paying costs on) for free for 2 years, b) give very over generous gifts c) just spend up to your limit all the time.

OP - return the gifts that are from MIL that you have paid for, if she wants to give the DCs those, she can buy them herself, she doesn't need you to buy them for her unless she can't afford them, if she can't afford them, you shouldn't be forcing her into more debt. This actually is a kindness.

And I agree with someone up thread who said that you are wrong that in a couple of months she could afford 20 xboxes - in a couple of months she might get a big dump of money, but she doesn't know how long that will last, so she needs to break the habit of spending everything when she gets money and running up debts when she's not.

Your DCs are old enough to have it explained to them that granny's business isn't going well so she won't be able to buy expensive gifts and they should be grateful for what they do get because it has taken a big sacrifice from Granny and Grandad to afford them.

I do kind of get the dog thing, I personally wouldn't see the point, but presumably the dsis and bil could ask for something for themselves for 30 quid, or 15 each and no one think it wierd, it is their wierdness, not the OP's problem.

What I do think is that your in laws have an extravagent lifestyle which you are subsidising. On your side of the family you spend 130 on 4 people plus dog. Dh's side get 400 between 4 people, plus you have to spend another ?300+ for your own dc's presents from them. You need to get them to stop borrowing money and lower their expectations. How do you think they will cope when she retires? She needs to learn to budget now for the years ahead otherwise you will have to keep bailing her out.

If you get the money eventually I would leave it but next year let her actually buy the presents.

£70 for her and only little things for the DCs?
What the hell are you buying a bloody dog?

Well I suppose if you live beyond your means then getting into debt is easy!

I just can´t imagine 500k not being enough!

But really if she has been doing this same work for years then she should realise by now that the money has to last a certain length of time.

It's not really for the dog though is it? OP said she doesn't buy for her DSis and BIL so it's her present to them.

It depends how big her mortgage is!

It seems fairly OTT to me. We aim to spend around the £25 mark for DBs and SILS etc, GPs too and cousins. I will spend more on DH and the DSs.

I will get my friend's dog a pressie, but probably of the £5 whatever-is-in-Tesco variety.

Well I would do this...
Take 'her' presents back so you have money for your family and DCs.
Tell her sweetly that since she owes you a grand, she can get her present, DSIL, DBIL, DH granny' s present from you. That is then £400 off of what she owes. And she can get her own present for your children.

As a family on DHs side and for my parents we used to do the large present for adults, it worked out about £75 each. It was ridiculous and a hangover from when we had no kids. It got to the point one year when we swapped cheques, absolutely barking, no one needs to tell me this. It is very easy for families to get into a pattern of behaviour and not want to be the spoilsport who stops it or to admit that things are stretched financially.

This year DH and I suggested a limit for adults of about £25 each with all the adults involved, I thought it would go down like a lead balloon with some people but actually I think that people are relieved, it takes the pressure off everyone and they have understood our position so I haven't had any negative comments. I am focusing more on the children and enjoying Christmas as a result.

I think that you should rethink what Christmas actually means for you, for me it is children having a ball, relaxing, big roasts and seeing friends and family. There is no point getting into a financial pickle for it, you cannot control what your MIL does. You can control your response / actions and your own finances. Focus on your presents for your family, if you can, ask ILs etc to reduce expectations this year and you will do likewise from them.

I don't understand why someone that is capable of earning 500K doesn't have any savings and so can't pay someone £1000 back. It makes no sense to me.

I'd be interested to know what work pays her that. Is it some kind of money trading? Spread betting? What?

If so then she has the addictive mind of a gambler and her life revolves around risk taking. Easy come and easy go is her attitude to money. It's almost an illness isn't it?

She needs to have at a good chunk of savings in the bank for the lean times. It's her average income - i.e. amount earned over, say, two years divided by 24 that is her real level of income. Spending at the peak level of her income is not working.

Like pip pop, I suspect she's having you on as to the true amount of her income. She tells you she earns up to £500,000 pa but she's incapable of saving and can't cough up £1000 she owes you? Pull the other one, MIL.