MIL and DH have effed up xmas

[Clate]

Arrrrrgh yet another MIL rant.

MIL's work means that sometimes she is very flush and sometimes she's really hard up. Back when you could self-certify for mortgages she got in way over her head and although she's nearing retirement age she's in a precarious situation financially. But the sums her work commands are very high.

When I met DH he had taken out a loan in his name for MIL (she did pay it back but couldn't get it in her own name). When we had DCs I did put my foot down and say that couldn't happen again but over the years we have helped MIL out (she has always paid it back).

MIL has always been very generous. For example she let friends live rent-free in one of her properties for two years. She has bought the DCs lovely things over the years and she is the first to help out a friend in need. Unfortunately when she hit this difficult patch and mortgage lending tightened up and property prices went down she couldn't help people out so much and lost a lot of 'friends'. Of course I am furious on her behalf.

But there's this pattern where she over-promises. She made a big deal about paying for a specific venue for our wedding and then when it was too late to cancel said she didn't have the money. So we paid - not the end of the world but it's not what we would've chosen if we'd known we were paying for it ourselves.

And she has insisted on buying the DCs 'big ticket' items for xmas - a kindle fire for DS1, an xbox as a shared present - but actually we paid for them, she said she would pay us back. And she hasn't despite prompting from DH.

She owes us over £1000 now and with xmas coming up it's money we really need. She just sent us what she and FIL and BIL want for xmas, and ideas for DH's grandma, and we can't afford it (£100 cashmere jumper which we would normally love to get). Because we need her to pay us back!

DH feels he can't 'go on about it' because she is so stressed. He tried to bring it up and she said "just email me how much it is and I'll sort it" and that was a fortnight ago.

I am SO annoyed at DH and MIL and it's going to cast a massive pall over xmas. I can't even get my own parents the present they asked for.

Not to be harsh Clate, seriously I mean this constructively, but if you can't afford to let the £1000 slide, then you can't afford £100 gifts for each adult in the family.

Why did you book your wedding venue at somewhere so pricey, when you knew MIL was unreliable with money?

Why, when she keeps stinging you like this, did you go out and buy the very expensive christmas gifts for your DCs on the promise that she would pay you back?

STOP LENDING HER MONEY! SHE CANNOT AFFORD TO REPAY YOU!

Again, in the kindest way possible, you and DH are being no different to her grabby 'friends'. By accepting her offer to buy expensive gifts, she thinks you expect them (which I'm sure isn't the case) and therefore feels that she has to validate her love for your DCs/you and DH with these expensive gestures that, god bless her, she cannot afford.

There aren't any aunts or uncles so maybe that's why it's a few, expensive things.

You need to knock the whole thing on the head. Really, adults request specific, expensive presents and you buy them? What is the point in that? Whatever happened to thoughtful surprises?

It sounds like your MIL wants to be 'needed' by throwing the cash around when she's got it. Some people get a buzz from being able to help people out of difficult situations, but she shouldn't be getting her self-worth from this

You need to try and control her spending on your family when she has the cash by telling her to save it for next birthday/Christmas and don't let her throw presents at the DCs for no reason.

Just tell her you can't buy any Christmas gifts until she pays what she owes you.

I couldn't stand this tbh.

I have no patience for adults that cannot effectively manage their money.

But the point is that she shouldn't be buying extravagences like that if her income is irregular! She should be saving and planning for the months when she doesn't earn those amounts!

And your children have no need to be privy to their grandmother's financial details at all, so no explanations should be necessary

I think it would be no harm to e-mail back and say we are not buying shop bought gifts this year, and we don't expect any. Love and kisses to you all.

hazel she wasn't unreliable then (well not so far as I knew), the wedding was the first time, and she did pay us back. We could afford it.

She always pays us back. But I agree.

She earns half a million in a good year, but there haven't been many good years - it's an adjustment. She insisted on the xbox though I can see how we can be coming across as enablers.

vitamin the DCs are old enough that it is pretty obvious when their GM is flush iyswim. We'll sort something out.

I didn't know we were so weird - my parents are the same with asking for something specific which costs a fair bit so it can't just be DH's family!

Clate, this year I spent about £35 on my dad, bit more on my mum, prob £20 each on my aunt and uncle, £20-£25ish on BIL and his wife each, and most on my DB and his wife, still less than £100 between them though. Less than £100 on DH too.

Those are the only adults I buy presents for -SIL and I just buy for each other's kids, other aunts and uncles are overseas and get nowt.

Sorry, just thinking out loud... I think DH sees it as normal because he was raised that way (feast/famine).

It's always annoyed me but I am having a big think now!

I don't understand what the point is in that sort of present-giving.
Why doesn't everyone just buy their own expensive clutter?

You really have to stop enabling her infantile irresponsible behaviour. You say she can afford twenty x-boxes in a few months, but she can't really can she? Because being able to afford something means budgeting for the times when you have less money, and learning to 'put something away' for the months where there is less coming in. I've been freelance all my professional life, and one of the first things you learn is that you can't go ahead and spend whatever happens to be in your account. Your MIL will never learn this if she constantly has you two bailing her out - to be honest, I don't think she will ever learn, but that shouldn't be your problem.

Buying people washing machines and plane tickets is NOT generosity for someone in her financial position - it's a complete lack of impulse control.

Certainly take back/return as many of the stupidly expensive presents as you can. Tell her you'd rather not receive any more than a symbolic small prezzie from her, and that she will be getting the same from you until her mortgage situation is sorted.

"Perhaps it's because we are both from small families?" - no, in her case it's nothing to do with being from a small family. She needs to take responsibility for her actions and admit that she has a problem with inappropriate spending.

My mum has asked for something that costs about £70, my dad (bless him), has bought himself what he wants - a book, £20ish. DH and I rarely get each other anything. DCs get very small presents from us.

I get DSis' dog something, say £30. That's it in terms of family.

Then there's MIL, FIL, BIL and Dh's grandma. I buy for friends too but always something small/thoughtful...

it is really unbalanced isn't it!

I think it is a massive step to break the cycle, but once it is done, it is done, and no-one minds.

Set a limit. Or do a thing where everyone buys for one other person. Or just cut down.

But both MIL and you sound irresponsible with money.

£30 for a dog? For Christmas?

What the bleeding hell do you buy for the dog that costs £30?

You need to sit down with DH and discuss this. Other posters are correct - you enabling your MIL to mismanage her money and affect your family.

My PIL have a good income, whereas we don't. They buy us things which is no way could we reciprocate in buying like for like. As I see it, if they want to spend money on us and DS's they can. We normally try and give them things which aren't intrinsically to do with the amount of money you have ie framed pictures of DS's, home made biscuits, vintage things (ie we have bought MIL a lovely vintage Blue John and silver broach).

VC is correct, however you cannot manage the money for her, you can only manage how it affects you and your family.

So get DH to ask MIL when she will be able to repay the money, take back the Kindle and the XBox, and then look at what money you have available. As far as I am aware most people do not spend £100 on adult pressies.

Surely it's the thought behind the present, not the actual monetary value which counts?

We don't buy for Aunts and Uncles, cousins, (because DH is from a Catholic family and his Dad is one of 9 and his Mum one of 14!), and my only rellies are Jewish, so don't do Xmas, so we have a small amount of adults to buy for but we would never, ever spend £100 on other adults, and not even on each other. I don't think it's a normal amount to spend, unless everyone involved is a lot, lot richer than average.

You are definitely enabling her. She clearly derives all her self-worth and satisfaction from being generous and being seen and known as a Giver. But it's a really dysfunctional dynamic and the most loving thing you can do is not pander to this need of hers, which comes from a sad and messed-up place (my mother is a giver and martyr, siiiiiigh). It is bonkers, properly bonkers for you to have to pay for expensive gear just so your Dc can view Grandma as super-generous!

I presume they don't know they're etting these things, so send them back and get refunds. From November onwards, most places have extended returns policies due to Xmas. If needs be, sell them on eBay for a small loss. Tell her to get them stuff she can afford, or, even better, encourage her to give them meaningful things, like Granny IOUs (ice-creams, long walks, etc.) or something hand-made. Let her trust that people can love her regardless of what she has in the bank.

If she is funny, point out that she cannot surely expect you to get in money difficulties for her to pretend she is flush. And please, also tell her that the most important gift you want to give your DC is to be sensible with money, live within their means and that materialism is not what counts. Because that's the truth, OP.

Well the first year she asked for one of those barbour dog coats (I swear), and it has just gone from there. Don't get her or BIL anything and they buy the DCs loads so it seems.... fair? She sees her dog as a child!

I am so surprised at the tolerance of an adult who is this clueless about money, you and your partner and is there a Fil?, are all enabling this OP.

Thing is she isn't 'flush' when she has money, she is actually breaking even isn't she?, that money is accounted for it is the money that will tide her over when she hasn't got any, it isn't spare.

I think you and the rest of the family are just happy to get when you get, and OP if you have to wait for the money to come in before you can spend it on gifts you don't really have enough money for those gifts.

This sounds like a whole family living beyond their means and then being a bit shocked when it doesn't work well.

Take the gifts back, tell her why and set boundaries.

Sorry you are out of pocket just before Christmas.

Please tell me you don't really spend £30 on a gift for a dog???

You do sound like an unusual family & I don't think it has anything to do with being small, we're a small family but the only adults we do a big gift for is MIL & FIL but that is simply because she has our kids while I work so our gift to them is also a thank you for that.

What a nightmare. This will continue if you don't stand up to it. I agree you should return the presents now. If she happens to get the money before Xmas then it won't be difficult for her to buy the presents anyway if she really wants to.