To feel sorry for the Australian DJs?

[andapartridgeinaRowantree]

Obviously more sorry for the nurse's family. I wonder how long she was having suicidal thoughts for? I can't think this could have been the only cause,

But these pranks have been going on for such a long time and those DJs could not have predicted such a result and are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

It's such a tragedy and I feel very sad for all concerned.

this scenario reminds me of situations where people may be 'set up' to break the law (eg, an undercover police officer trying to sell drugs). These two nurses were 'set up'.
The second nurse could have not only lost her job, but her profession, if the Nursing and Midwifery council had struck her off for such a grave error. the radio station should have thought more carefully before broadcasting. This nurse was deliberately encouraged to behave unprofessionally (but, yes, she still did it, and needs retraining for that)
i just hope that one of the outcomes of this is that these types of prank activities lose their appeal.

If you can state that the nurse was encouraged to behave unprofessionally do you not think these two young Australian people did too?

Whether it was due to tiredness, language issues or a lack of internal training on security protocol and procedure, that fact remains.

Imagine another scenario: an organisation wishing harm to the DoC managed to infiltrate clearly lax security and she lost the baby or worse? An unimaginable outcome? Where would blame lie then?

The hospital should be brought to task regarding security protocol.

And perhaps as we near the end if this thread, we could all stznc back and practise a little human kindness to everyone who has felt affected by these extraordinary events.

I do empathise with you Everlong, but that doesn't mean I agree with your view. But I do understand, as I said, that you're coming from a difficult place on this. However, I still think the DJs deserve sympathy for what they're now going through because of a few minutes of stupid thoughtlessness and some very silly and ill judged boasting about it afterwards. Lose their jobs... fair enough. But to feel responsible for the death of a woman is a life sentence and that is dreadful for them.

Farandawaysheran, you are comparing to incomparable things : the nurses were not willing participants in some people's perception that they might have acted unprofessionally whereas the DJs were willing participants and had much time to consider their actions.

For the love of all that's holy, nobody was going to lose their job over the phone calls. There are protocols in place for when mistakes happen in clinical practice. These would of been followed and maybe a refresher on confidentiality been recommended. I actually think it's unlikely considering the circumstances.
All this waffle by people making huge assumptions without anyone having the facts of what actually happened on the night in question

I do think a lot of the "make the DJs pay people here and in other places are those that were so quick to condemn the nurses in the first place.
And yes, I was on the thread here that called for them to be sacked and did argue it was rubbish.

Hiding this madness now. How it's so difficult for some posters to be unable to empathise/sympathise with others is just so bloody smug and arrogant.

What if they had actually been put through to speak to the patient herself?

The DJs wanted publicity. They got it. They can hardly complain that the world and her mother is discussing them now!

And do you know the hospital's security protocols and do you know all the events surrounding those phone calls? If you do not, then shut up and stop speculating about these sort of things and wait for the inquest!

Natation, I've been making the point that we all need to stop speculating for the better part of 24 hours.

It's another scenario; the first was unimaginable despite the feeling on parts of this post that thd DJs deliberately set out to wreck innocent lives.

No I don't know that private hospital's protocols, but I have been involved in the writing, implementation and subsequent testing of security procedure. And it is my opinion that there were no security protocols being followed. We do not at this point know why.

Nor do we know the true state of mind of the lady who took her own life.

Nor do we know the true motivation for or who finally sanctioned the call in the first place.

So perhaps, as I've already opined, we could cut the blame-throwing theatrics and remember, with dignity, all those affected by this tragedy.

"And do you know the hospital's security protocols and do you know all the events surrounding those phone calls? If you do not, then shut up and stop speculating about these sort of things and wait for the inquest!"

If that was directed at me, then it's not speculation to say that either the hospital had protocols and two nurses in quick succession did not follow them, which is a training matter and therefore a management failure, or it didn't have protocols, which is a security matter and therefore a management failure.

So perhaps, as I've already opined, we could cut the blame-throwing theatrics and remember, with dignity, all those affected by this tragedy.

Well said, Faraway. There are a lot of people really suffering as a result of this incident. Some were innocent bystanders, some made foolish decisions or human mistakes. But those of us not involved in the situation are not helping matters by sounding off on forums all over the world castigating people who are already suffering and whose behaviour will, no doubt, be subjected to a thorough investigation by those competent and informed enough to come to a fair decision.

and yet here we are, posters are STILL speculating!
Speculating in this context means talking about something based on inconclusive evidence. So unless you were there and know it all, you will not know all the evidence and therefore it's in poor taste to pass judgement that the hospital's protocols were at fault.

I'm sorry, I really am off after this but...
Human error is entirely possible and more than likely probable to account for any mistakes made in the hospital. No more no less. As far as I'm aware there's no policy yet devised to counter act that completely.

But don't let that stop anyone from calling for heads to roll. I'm sure someone who's husbands, brothers, cousin wrote all the policies for all the hospitals, which did indeed completely wipe out all human error will be along in a moment.

the hospital's poor screening process cannot be denied though.

As I said. Either there were protocols that weren't followed or there weren't protocols. There are no other options. Either is a management failure.

With reference to the radio station, they either did not get consent and broadcast anyway which is a failure of management at the radio station, or (which seems extremely unlikely) they did get consent which is a failure of management at the hospital.

No speculation there. Just facts.

It's not 'in poor taste,' it's a reasoned professional conclusion based on hearing the calls being made, hearing the response of those who answered and not hearing even the most basic attempt to establish the identity of the caller(s).

If you want 'poor taste,' have a look back through this witch hunt thread.

How do we know there wasn't a screening process and due to, I don't know, three arrests, a gi bleed and staff shortages due to d&v they weren't followed?
Or the nurses had had to work in an unfamiliar ward due due to staffing skill mix?

That would be human error. The scenarios may be unlikely but have happened before and will again. Sometimes shit like that happens in even a private hospital.

How human error is a management failure fuck knows, but whatever.

One things for sure no one knows at the moment.

Please shoot me if I come back.

But you are making assumptions here too Juno:

'For the love of all that's holy, nobody was going to lose their job over the phone calls. There are protocols in place for when mistakes happen in clinical practice. These would of been followed and maybe a refresher on confidentiality been recommended. I actually think it's unlikely considering the circumstances.
All this waffle by people making huge assumptions without anyone having the facts of what actually happened on the night in question'

How do you know that no one was going to lose their job over this? Because it has been reported in The Daily Mail?
Breach of confidentiality is gross misconduct in the contract of most clinical staff. It is certainly a reason to sack someone without notice.

Your own post is full of assumptions (unless you actually work at the hospital and were directly involved in all the relevant discussions in which case, I apologise). If you haven't experience of working in hospitals or risk management, etc, then you have less experience than some posters on which to base your opinions.

I'm certainly not baying for any blood by the way. I suspect those involved are/ will learn their lessons as a result of what has happened. It's very tragic and I doubt we will ever hear the full story.

Juno- it doesn't matter what happened- if these nurses had been properly trained, the automatic script for dealing with pho e calls would have just kicked in. This is a hospital very used to incredibly high profile patients security would be a top priority.
Why on earth do you want to absolve the hospital management?

What if they had actually been put through to speak to the patient herself?

Listening to the recording, I wasn't entirely convinced this wouldn't have happened had they had the neck to suggest it.

Yes, i agree, poor media training. We all know themedia are unscrupulous assholes, we all know the importance of this particular baby and yet seemingly hospital mgmt didnt have any sort of training for dealing with such a high profile admission...its crazy. Media training is routine for employees in places like investment banks, i cannot fathom why the royal family's chosen hospital was not forward thinking enough to protect their patients and staff a little better.

I agree with seeker. Their should have been procedures in place for verification of the authenticity of phone callers. If there were such measures in place then they were not followed or they were inadequate and if there were no procedures in place then security was lacking.

Just look at the face of Jacintha's little girl holding those flowers. Jacintha's son being hugged by his father.
And tell me you still feel sorry those fuckwits.

Go on.

The radio station involved have said they will donate all profits until the end of the year to a charity of the family's choice. Starting with 500,000AUD.

A friend has a DD who works at the hospital and it is drummed into them that under no circumstances are they to put a call through to a ward.

This whole thing has been a tragedy from start to finish and it seems as though some people are determined to keep going until the so called retribution of an "eye for an eye" is achieved.

What do you want, Everlong? The DJ's heads? Will you be "happy" when one of them is driven to suicide by all the media pressure and people like you baying for retribution? What will it achieve, exactly? "Closure?" "Justice?"

A donation to a charity... hmm. Yes like that is going to make a jot of difference to Jacintha's family.

It's an insult.

Nothing the radio station can do will redeem themselves. Ever.