to think America is not the greatest country in the world

[Phacelia]

I keep reading on blogs, in blog comments, on news pages, on fora, everywhere, about how America is the greatest country in the world. As in 'I can't believe this could happen here in America, we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world,' or 'I'm totally against this, we're the greatest country in the world.'

It utterly pisses me off.

I do think America is a great country. There are many fantastic, wonderful things about it and the times I've visited I've found a lot to like and met some wonderful people. But I think it is extraordinarily arrogant that so many Americans spout such nonsense online. I've never seen people of other nationalities write such garbage. I can't understand why I find it so inflammatory, except that I think it's ignorant (all countries have many great aspects to them, lots of people would hate to live in America, despite it's positive attributes, lots of people have died at the hands of Americans over the past 50 years, in terrible ways, and I wonder how their families/friends must feel reading stuff like that, plus I thought that America had gained some humility after 9/11 and realised that lots of people in fact dislike their government for very good reasons).

To be fair it usually seems to be right wing/Republican (often very religious) people who say it. (maybe I'm just more pissed that such people exist, with their homophobia, anti-abortion crap and religious fundamentalism which I think does such damage) I know lots of Americans wouldn't dare say something like that. But still, AIBU to think that it's unbelievably tacky and arrogant to write things like that online and that it isn't true? The latest version I've seen is on a blog about the UN disability rights treaty, which has been rejected with some commenters on blogs saying 'why does the greatest country in the world need other people telling us what to do? This treaty will lead to the government rounding up disabled people and exterminating them, blah, blah, blah.'

/end rant.

Ah, every country has silly tourists.

I was recently trying to find a hotel in France, going through Trip Advisor and reading all the comments and reviews, and you would not believe how many English tourists were complaining about French hotels not serving English breakfasts!

Again, I think Americans are just louder about everything, including their own ignorance

I'm sure that the US is a brilliant place in loads of ways, and I'm a bit ashamed never to have visited, but, blimey, I'm astonished at the sheer extent of the delusion about being "the best country in the world," that this thread seems to reveal. Do more than a very few Americans really think that? It is nonsensical.

As a Brit, I would far rather live in Britain than anywhere. I love it. But to translate that into Britain being objectively the best is on a par with saying that London is on everybody's left because it happens (right now) to be on my left. It is the stupidity more than the arrogance which is shocking.

What prompts me to post is this story in today's Guardian -- another tale of terrible negligence and incompetence in the conduct of US death-penalty cases. "Leaders of the free world" but with a judicial system that allows such horrors!

Well it's certainly one of the biggest.....

I can relate to the "everyone wants to live in america" myth. My sister is a recent immigrant, just been in the US for three years. She is being sent from pillar to post for her visa thingies, (too labyrinthine for me to even understand what she is talking about).

I was commiserating about her troubles when she comes out with "Well you know its such a desirable country. Everyone wants to move here, there are so many applications, what CAN the immigrations officials do?" So is this what new immigrants are being told as well? "your papers wont be looked at for the next 18 months, because the whole world and his uncle are baying to get into the US.."

FWIW, I am immigrant as well living in the UK. My transition from knowledge worker to permanent resident to citizen was fairly civilised and straightforward.

And what DOES an immigration lawyer do??

dreaming yes, as a people we're definitely loud. I think it's also the fact that we have a large population (so even if only a small percentage are traveling, it still adds up to quite a lot of us out there) and that everyone can understand us.

Because I hear what German tourists say. And it's almost never complimentary. Everything is always better in Germany. Don't get them started on bread. Danish people as well.

"My transition from knowledge worker to permanent resident to citizen was fairly civilised and straightforward.

And what DOES an immigration lawyer do?? "

Haha. You've obviously been very fortunate and had a very easy time getting your papers. They haven't lost your papers, lost your passport, said you haven't sent in forms that you have, refused your application and then had to go to court to defend yourself, and then have the Home Office not turn up at court. So yes, immigration lawyers are quite useful if you're having a rubbish time of it. Or, most recently, there is a huge backlog and they're only just starting to look at the visa applications from July.

Our mother company is an American one, so I go there quite often. And even educated and widely travelled people there are convinced that I would like nothing better than to move over there. God forbid, it's my nightmare that I get offered a job in the headquarters.

They also all passionately believe that you only have "freedom" in America - or at least most freedom. I have never understood what exactly is that supposed to mean and in what way we are less free in Europe.

snort. Agree wtih Absy, but didn't want to turn it into an immigration thread. I've lived in a few countries, have gone through the process in all of them. Suffice to say, countries do not tend to put their best face forward with their immigration staff. And there's no incentive to do so, because general popular opinion is often not pro-immigration so there is no voter demand to fix it.

Haha Green Eggs yes all my German friends in the UK could rant for ages about the bread. That's a really good point about the language.

Snow I agree with Absy, you were quite lucky to not have any issues with your UK immigration.

At one point I could not leave the UK for 8 months because my passport was sitting on a shelf in Liverpool, even though I was applying under one of the easiest and most straightforward visas, which under EU law should be processed within 6 months. They flat out said, yes we know that's the law but we have a backlog so it will take as long as it takes.

I don't think immigration is particularly easy in any country, a lot of it is luck. And the US isn't the only country that tries to excuse problems by saying the demand is so high. Certainly this is the excuse the UK Border Agency trots out all the time.

Ouch, Absy That sounds like a nightmare. I guess I WAS lucky....

But US border staff are seen as surly. Itseems to a recurring theme from people who have just visited, not even gone there to work. Why is this? And this is a country, trafitoonally built on immigrant labour.

Can understand if there was a welfare system in place. "Oh they are all coming over here to claim benefit and commit fraud". Yep, heard THAT one a lot around here

x-post Green Eggs -- yes, I'm resisting a huge rant about immigration practices as well!

trafitoonally ??! Good lord... Traditionally.

Though 'trafitoonally' has a ring to it

My friend's had to pay out over £1,000 and handed over his passport to the Home Office for 3 months (working through the backlog) for a ONE DAY visa to cover the gap between his current visa and IRL kicking in.

Or there was the time when my sister in law was applying for her citizenship and they moved office and lost all the documents of all the people who applied just before they moved. That was fun.

Or the person I advised when I was a law student at a pro bono clinic, who had a visa through her work, but lost her job because she wasn't social enough (all the outings involved alcohol, and she was muslim) and whether or not she could apply for other visas, what other options were there etc. etc., when immigration laws were changing every two minutes.

Oooh I like trafitoonally! It needs a definition though

I must admit, US border staff and airport security people have always been kind of a nightmare in my experience. I think they are not paid well and there is a massive amount of paranoia going around, it's not a good combination.

Snow the US border agency staff are shockingly rude to non-Americans. (okay, I'm sure not ALL of them are, but a disgusting number of them are) I've had the displeasure of standing there while some redneck spoke to my husband as if he were a child, to get him to put his eye in the right spot for a retina scan. My husband could design and build a bloody retina scanner , I think if you gave him the 20 seconds to process your country accent into English, he'd be able to sort out what you're asking, thanks! And you dare not complain or that'll be you sat in detention for god knows what reason.

(have been sent to the naughty room at the crossing in Dover as well, over a problem which was entirely the HO's fault, and a very condescending border agent, so this does happen in the UK. Just not nearly as frequently)

Hazle I think the concept of freedom in the states is about freedom from government intervention. Remember the founding fathers were fleeing state persecution. And this idea of wanting minimal state interference still holds. Even most democrats would not want to replicate the european model of state led policy.

I LOVE the border agency staff i've met (admittedly, on only two occassions). The first time, the woman told DH off for mucking about on his blackberry while waiting in the queue. I nearly took her home with me.

So far I like the French border police, they don't really seem to take it all that seriously.

I once came into France without anyone checking my passport at all, I think because they were all at lunch.

DH likes South African border staff - the guy he saw was singing and was very cheerful. The person I did wasn't. Maybe it's because I'm a South African who had evidently emigrated and was therefore a traitor (in the immortal words of Nelson Mandela. Thanks dude)

Reminds me of the time I flew to Dubai. The immigration official cleared me and as I was about to walk away, called me back and said my visa is not valid. WTF? Was taken to another higher ranking official in a separate room. The official was a lady in traditional hijab, who parroted the same thing back. "Your visa is not valid". Wouldn't tell me why, what to do about it, nothing. Husband and I just stood there like naughty children in front of a school mistress. Humiliating.
(Though I was more surprised to see a woman in office rather than panicking about my visa situation. Shows how full to the gills I was with stereotypes)

No good will come of comparing a Arab country's border force to the US border force. and I realise Im hijacking the thread. So I'll just piss off to the corner and keep my trafitoonall mouth shut!! dreaming

Nooooo not until you tell me what trafitoonal means!

Trafitoonal, or toonal for short, is the unsurpassed ability of the human body to imitate animated or cartoon characters. E.g. Bouncing back after an anvil falls on your head, or your mouth becoming a trumpet when you yell or floppy when you spout inanities...

Yep, toonal. I'm owning it, ladies and gentlemen, and its so going in the OED!

So what happened SnowWide, they sent you back or could you sort something out?

No, it was a tourist visa for a week's stay. We'd arranged it here in the UK through a travel agent before we flew.

After that visa was rejected at the airport, we came out to at least 4 or 5 people who were touting for visas, promising they could arrange for one. Didn't realise tourist visas could be bought at the airport itself!! Makes me think the whole affair was a scam, since we paid a little bit more for the one at the airport than the one we arranged earlier.

Travel agent here was very surprised, his is an established company,so no reason to think he'd screwed up.

Toonal -- I like it