to think America is not the greatest country in the world

[Phacelia]

I keep reading on blogs, in blog comments, on news pages, on fora, everywhere, about how America is the greatest country in the world. As in 'I can't believe this could happen here in America, we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world,' or 'I'm totally against this, we're the greatest country in the world.'

It utterly pisses me off.

I do think America is a great country. There are many fantastic, wonderful things about it and the times I've visited I've found a lot to like and met some wonderful people. But I think it is extraordinarily arrogant that so many Americans spout such nonsense online. I've never seen people of other nationalities write such garbage. I can't understand why I find it so inflammatory, except that I think it's ignorant (all countries have many great aspects to them, lots of people would hate to live in America, despite it's positive attributes, lots of people have died at the hands of Americans over the past 50 years, in terrible ways, and I wonder how their families/friends must feel reading stuff like that, plus I thought that America had gained some humility after 9/11 and realised that lots of people in fact dislike their government for very good reasons).

To be fair it usually seems to be right wing/Republican (often very religious) people who say it. (maybe I'm just more pissed that such people exist, with their homophobia, anti-abortion crap and religious fundamentalism which I think does such damage) I know lots of Americans wouldn't dare say something like that. But still, AIBU to think that it's unbelievably tacky and arrogant to write things like that online and that it isn't true? The latest version I've seen is on a blog about the UN disability rights treaty, which has been rejected with some commenters on blogs saying 'why does the greatest country in the world need other people telling us what to do? This treaty will lead to the government rounding up disabled people and exterminating them, blah, blah, blah.'

/end rant.

Pitmountainpony: "I think Europeans kid themselves a little that they are so immersed in the culture when they have their two weeks in their insular Gite in France or hotel in turkey."

In European countries people have a minimum of 4 weeks holiday a year. So it's a bit more immersion in foreign cultures, as we actually have a life outside work ;)

Oh, I am not a Brit, by the way.

Sorry but Brits are not self depreciating.....they rate themselves highly indeed hence all the self awareness lacking yank bashing so commonplace amongst so many that no apology is even attempted. There is not really a single culture that Britain looks up to and it is well known how British women are viewed by many European cultures. But no doubt Brits think this something to proud of too.
I met more humble Americans within 3months living here compared to a decade in London.

Aurynne
Not convinced. Having extra holiday does not mean you somehow absorb more culture. Many go on holiday and it is about absorbing food and booze rather than culture...from all cultures. I am amazed how many more people here in the US seem to access the great outdoors which I perceived to be accessed by a minority in the UK. The national parks are packed put here each summer with people appreciating their natural wonders.
What can I say. I have a soft spot for humble people and I meet more of them in the US than I ever did in the UK, but they are generally more friendly here too I think.

I am a Brit by the way. A yank loving one too.

Aurynne, I agree, that Tea Party/conservative aspect depresses me too. However, happily the folks who do vote Republican are diminishing, and they didn't win. Hooray!

I think the health care issue is a travesty here, and I also think that they're going about it backwards by keeping private insurance companies involved. But politics is tricky business.

I don't think everyone would want to live here, it's not for everyone. there are many disadvantages, and I've lived and worked in various parts of Europe, and enjoyed it very much. There were parts I didn't enjoy, too.

The work week issue is different for me, as I have a rather "French" work schedule because I also value my life outside of work, and I don't really define myself by what I do. Though I do enjoy it! The rather protestant work ethic here is a bit depressing too, but I understand the history of it.

Pitmountainpony, I agree, I think that US humility is vastly underrated!

And I also found that when I was travelling that the English were the most ready to insult me rather than engage in dialogue. Which, as an American with a natural inclination for England (so much of our outlook is from the UK!) was really disheartening. But kind of hilarious too!

Pitmountainpony, I was commenting on your "two weeks" statement, but my comment is not based in my own experiences. I personally have spent the last 12 years of my life living in 5 different countries (living, not holidaying), so I do consider myself immersed in different cultures. At the moment I am living in New Zealand, but I haven't finished moving around.

I do believe that part of the problem comes from Americans being unable to believe that some people just may not like their country that much. It's really not such a big deal, some people do love the USA. Others don't. Overall I like the nature, but not the way the country works. It really does not change anything, it is just my personal opinion. But it's a real opinion. Get over it.

Monster child. I apologise on my fellow Brits' attitude.
Aurynne yes a personal opinion or real opinion as you call it is exactly that.....Simply your interpretation of how America perceives itself.....yours no more communicates the truth of the matter than mine or anyone,s does on here.so since this is a dialogue of opinions there is nothing to get over.

I refer to your comment about 4 weeks holiday as if the fact that one has slightly More time off work than the average us citizen and you have a few foreign holidays will qualify you as being educated about those cultures......and this notion is often thrown in, in these dialogues.....as in....the yanks never leave their country so theyknow nothing.......many may get on a plane but explore little of the culture of the country.

I haven't found Brits to be very patriotric in recent years, although the Royal Wedding and Olympics might have changed feelings somewhat. However, 100 years ago we seemed to feel about Britain the way Americans feel about the US now. Just look at the lyrics of "Land of Hope and Glory"....

Sorry for the "get over it" comment, it was rude and arrogant.

I agree, having a foreign holiday of whichever duration does not qualify as an enlightening cultural event. It really depends on the person and their attitude. Some British people can spend 20 years in Spain or France, for instance, and still not have learned an iota about the culture (they will still speak only English, go to English-speaking pubs and restaurants and mix only with other Brits). I think t is within the person how much cultural immersion he/she is able to do. Some people can learn more in a week in a country than the next person after spending 25 years in another one.

I disagree that The American Dream is not just about money. My son had to do a survey about it for his English class and they found that while the people they surveyed did say that money played a part in The American Dream, I don't think anyone said it was the most important thing. Not only that, but in the follow-up paper he had to write he took the position that the American Dream is still accessible to people today despite their starting position and gave examples of why that is.

As for people voting republican, I have a good number of friends who vote republican and their reasons for doing so are wide and varied and often don't have a lot to do with money, at least their own personal money.

Definitely not the best in the world. I went there once and couldn't get over their gluttony, their terrible dress sense ( they wore shorts for every occasion including the theatre! )or the fact I wasn't able to walk into town( they advised against it as no pavements)
All very odd to me! I've travelled all over the world but its by far the strangest place I've encountered.

You once went to a country with 3.8 million square miles and presumedly saw one tiny piece of it and you've judged the entire country from that?

The stereotypes on this thread are astounding.

No, the American dream is not just about money.

Many immigrants have an American dream that is incredibly modest -- they just want to be able to live somewhere with their family, work and support them, and not live in fear of persecution, of being thrown in jail because they voted for the wrong guy, or being forced to pay bribes for everything. They want to be able to practice their religion openly, or send their children to school for free. It's not just about money.

Obviously the US is not the only country where you can get these things, but being such a large country with so many different things going on, and also having long established immigrant communities and paths to success, it's no wonder that it's very appealing.

I don't think Americans are any more obsessed with money than other people, we are just more open about it. But you will find the same range of people there as anywhere, some people won't care at all and some people will care a lot.

Patriotism, never understood it, it's like being proud to be brunette, or 5ft, no choice in it what so ever.

XiaoxiongMerrilyOnHigh - what you said about exceptionalism was very very true.

I have American business TV on pretty much all day in our house (sorry its my job) and the relentless optimism from business leaders, politicians, Wall Street bankers and news anchors is really annoying after a while.

It almost seems like a cult where no one is allowed to be truthful about the reality of the current economic, social and political challenges that the World faces.

I used to notice it when I had interaction with employees of US firms in the The City. I even interviewed with a few US banks. I could never get my head around how bizarrely and blatantly deluded and over optimistic they were about everything.

The US could be a beacon to the World and it does have many great qualities. I taught a truely exceptional PhD student from the USA and admire many great people that are US citizens

However, its leaders are mostly pigmies too afraid to speak the truth and its populus too sated by 'bread and circuses' to care.

CheerfulYank - "I walk everywhere, I've never had a driver's license."

You are only second person from the USA I have met who cannot drive.

I looked at your profile and you live in the Mid West. How can you possibly live?

I dont drive but I live in the UK in a town.

I knew quite a few people who didn't drive when I lived in Chicago. Similar could hold for New York or even probably Washington DC.

This thread started by saying the US is not the best country, its not the worst either.

I have met lots of American's who had never left their home state, and quite educated ones. I also know lots of English who spend a lot of time in the outdoors etc.
(I even met a group of Canadians once for whom walking 1/2 miles was a long way, which shows my stereo type of them was wrong.)

The only time Americans thinking the USA is the greatest annoys me is at Immigration. It worries me sometimes, but so can all kind of other national or other group prejudices.

YANBU. I once had to sit through a very annoying individual going on and on and on for about an hour about how America is the greatest country in the world, don't we all agree? (directed at an Australian, South African and a French person) isn't it great, isn't it fabulous? so much so I nearly punched her in the face. (the irony being - she's lived in London for the last 5 years, with no plans to return to the "greatest country in the world"). She couldn't get it through her (considerably thick) skull that other people don't agree with her, and may actually prefer other places. But I put that down to her being a complete moron, rather than an issue with Americans in general.

However, its leaders are mostly pigmies too afraid to speak the truth and its populus too sated by 'bread and circuses' to care.

I agree with this. :(

No politician wants to be the one to speak plainly. They assume it would be political suicide. I think this is changing a bit, with more people accessing news from other parts of the world online.

I also think there is a more sinister aspect to politics there. I don't believe that conservatives at higher levels really believe some of the crap they sell to the populace. They have their agenda (say, we don't want to have to pay more taxes, because we're rich and we like it that way. Oversimplifying for sake of argument) and spin it to poor people as "look how much of your tax dollars are being spent on illegal immigrants! We should get rid of these programs entirely, we are just handing our money over to people who are too lazy to work! And aren't even American!" Or whatever plays in their home state. It's painful to watch when the fact is, those people voting are living in poor areas and are actually benefiting from the plans they are voting to get rid of.

Actually I could go on quite a bit on this subject, but I'll save everyone the wall of text. It's incredibly sad to watch people cut their noses off to spite their faces, and not even realise it because they've been whipped into a frenzy of hatred for some unseen benefit scrounger.

USA USA USA!!

I think Denmark is probably the best country in the world, but only from what I've heard about it, haven't been there. Just the fact that there is much more equality than in most countries, location, climate, etc, generally good all round. I'm a big fan of Germany and Italy, though I wouldn't like to live in Italy. I have only been to New York in the US, which was fab, but I wouldn't judge the rest of the country based on that. I don't think it can be the best country in the world though, it only comes 16th for education, for example in a recent study. The current president is excellent though and could make many improvements, if others would only let him. I'd say the US might be in the top ten/fifteen across all measures.

When I was on a work placement in Germany as a 20 year old, I shared a flat with an American guy of the same age. It was his first time out of the States and when I first met him I thought "what a cock". Everything was "well, in America, we do it like this..." "how stupid, we wouldn't do XYZ in America" etc.

However, after a few months his eyes really opened to the fact that there are other ways of doing things and that the American way wasn't always the best. I think a lot of it is a product of people not having travelled very widely and therefore only knowing what is local to them.

I don't want to make it thread about ignorant tourists, but one thing that sticks in my mind when we were in Venice, we got talking to two tourists from the US. We were talking about the city and the locals, they said "They haven't got much, but they seem happy."

MoreBeta I can't drive either, so I guess I can be your third!

I think watching American business TV all day would give you an incredibly skewed view of the country, I don't know anyone in real life who is anything like the people on there.

Isn't there a structural element to the optimism though? Given that 'the markets' seem to control our destinies these days? At least, what I always see in the news is 'the markets are happy about this' or 'the markets don't like that' -- countries are always trying to present positive economic news or else the markets won't be happy and some kind of punishment is involved.

Isn't that part of what's driving all the austerity programs? That the markets take a dim view of countries not getting their deficits in order?

I sort of assume a lot of the talking that business types and politicians do these days is really directed at markets and finance people, not the public. In which case of course they're going to be over-optimistic, they're trying to convince people we're still a good investment.