to think America is not the greatest country in the world

[Phacelia]

I keep reading on blogs, in blog comments, on news pages, on fora, everywhere, about how America is the greatest country in the world. As in 'I can't believe this could happen here in America, we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world,' or 'I'm totally against this, we're the greatest country in the world.'

It utterly pisses me off.

I do think America is a great country. There are many fantastic, wonderful things about it and the times I've visited I've found a lot to like and met some wonderful people. But I think it is extraordinarily arrogant that so many Americans spout such nonsense online. I've never seen people of other nationalities write such garbage. I can't understand why I find it so inflammatory, except that I think it's ignorant (all countries have many great aspects to them, lots of people would hate to live in America, despite it's positive attributes, lots of people have died at the hands of Americans over the past 50 years, in terrible ways, and I wonder how their families/friends must feel reading stuff like that, plus I thought that America had gained some humility after 9/11 and realised that lots of people in fact dislike their government for very good reasons).

To be fair it usually seems to be right wing/Republican (often very religious) people who say it. (maybe I'm just more pissed that such people exist, with their homophobia, anti-abortion crap and religious fundamentalism which I think does such damage) I know lots of Americans wouldn't dare say something like that. But still, AIBU to think that it's unbelievably tacky and arrogant to write things like that online and that it isn't true? The latest version I've seen is on a blog about the UN disability rights treaty, which has been rejected with some commenters on blogs saying 'why does the greatest country in the world need other people telling us what to do? This treaty will lead to the government rounding up disabled people and exterminating them, blah, blah, blah.'

/end rant.

I think there are a couple of other factors that could come into play. One is perhaps a kind of defensiveness, because the USA didn't have a very good track record in their treatment of Native Americans and African slaves (which was similar to the behaviour of the British/French/Dutch/Spanish/etc towards the inhabitants of our/their colonies) but America couldn't do what other countries did and just walk away and forget.

Another factor is that loyalty to the USA (and especially its flag) is quite pervasive. Various symbols that represent the USA are evident in many public buildings, and many people have the flag flying outside their homes. Also, there's the pledge of allegiance, which most state-school children recite every morning. And a lot of public events, especially some sports events, start with the singing of the Star-Spangled Banner. It's probably very difficult to avoid the "America is great", which can be so easily translated into "America is best".

There was an interesting thread here about the US elections which I think is worth reading. I learned a lot from that: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/1552996-Can-someone-explain-to-me-in-simple-terms-USA-elections?msgid=34007624.

(I wanted to work in "manifest destiny", because I think that was a factor as well, but my essay-writing abilities are obviously not as good as they used to be. )

America is a large friendly dog in a very small room, and every time it wags its tail it knocks over a chair

I think patriotism within China would undoubtedly rival that in the USA, and Chinese nationalism is apparently on the rise. It is worrying to contemplate the sort tensions that will arise within the next couple of decades when China is both economically and militarily equal to the U.S.

Greensleeves I love that description!

Has anyone else ever heard of the peaches and coconuts analogy? Something like, Americans are peaches, fuzzy and ripe and wearing all their sweetness and juiciness on the outside, but with a hard inner kernel that most people can't crack. Brits are the coconuts, hard and hairy and closed up tight on the outside, but once you can get through that hard outer shell, they are sweet and soft etc.

The word "brainwashing" has appeared several times on this thread. I wouldn't say that Americans are any more "brainwashed" than citizens of any other country, including the UK. Though the subjects about which our respective brains are washed may be different. It's always easier to recognise such things in other people and other cultures than it is to see them in ourselves.

As I wrote above, I really cringe at the "best country in the world" nonsense. But I don't think this line of thinking is unique to the US. I spend a good deal of time in Russia, and the same sort of intense patriotism is certainly present there.

Greensleeves I love that!

Yanbu

I think the American culture champions different values, always believing that biggest is best and has no concept of quality over quantity. My country/car/burger is bigger and therefore must be better....

Drizzle I walk everywhere, I've never had a driver's license. :)

YANBU I'm still here, and the American dream is dead and gone.
The grass isn't greener here and most people live the same struggle as they do anywhere else, only amplified by lack of health care.
People here have it drummed into them from an early age in school that it is the greatest country on earth and everyone from everywhere want to come here and live here. This is helped along by the pledge of allegiance being recited by standing with their hand over their heart and facing the flag in their classroom every single day, and for the little ones it is followed by patriotic songs. Then they get down to the school work.

I will reply to original post, not read any replies. Yes, I think America is the greatest country in the world, but I am American. People from any country likely think their country is the best. I am NOT Republican, Fundamentalist, anti gay or anti abortion.
So, you British people cherish your country, as we cherish ours. And come visit, we have numerous mountain ranges, many different weather systems going on at once, and people as varied as Amish, Cajuns, American Indians, ranchers, fishermen, wheat farmers, Southerners--it is great!

I love America. It certainly has it's share of problems though like every other country and it can't really claim the be the greatest as it's all relative.

One thing I do wish is that the UK would adopt some of their patriotism, their genuine respect for soldiers/emergency services and can-do attitude.

Over here we seem to be embarrassed to wave our flag, bitch & moan about our police and our default is to usually tell people why we can't/shouldn't do something.

One of the funniest blog posts I have ever read was from an American complaining about a proposed U.S passport depicting the smoking twin towers and a tear in the eye of an eagle:

"Do they not realise that some of us will leave America and will have to show this to actual people?"

we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world

So that's the USA and North Korea

YANBU and I say this as an American, born and bred.

When we lived in the USA, my kids did a subject at school called "Social Studies" (basically history, geography and citizenship). I used to refer to it a Propaganda lessons.

My Dad has been pen-friends with a Deep South republican for more than 50 years. For all that time, they have written back and forth to each other - but now, with the advent of email - I fear their half-decade friendship could actually falter.

It's much easier for them to drop a line to each other here and there, now that they don't have to rely in snail mail, and the 'niceties' that old-fashioned hand-written letters used to epitomise.

Now, they share thoughts back and forth - and their inherent left-wing vs right-wing leanings are a main topic of conversation.... I honestly think they are going to fall out spectacularly, and if the election campaign had gone on any longer, I think they would have.

Anyway... PF wrote to Dad recently about his son-in-law and how he and his band were in the Netherlands for some reason. The first piece they played at the first concert they gave, was The Star Spangled Banner. Apparently most of the crowd were quite vociferous in their condemnation of this. PF was absolutely, genuinely gob-smacked and shocked at this. He couldn't believe the rudeness of the audience, to not only not stand and put their hands on their hearts when the tune was played, but to actually in some instances walk out.

He - and the band itself - thought this was so unbelievably rude and provocative of the audience, as to be unfathomable.

I don't know too much about the Dutch psyche but suffice to say I believe they're not quite as, um, compliant as say, the British who might have sat politely through this, internally rolling their eyes at the arrogance of the Americans. The band could not believe the reaction.

I mean, it's not the greatest crime in the world by a long stretch, but man, does it epitomise a certain attitude. You just cannot imagine a band from another country going somewhere different and not choosing to play the host country's national anthem first - if indeed any national anthem has to be played at all! And then being utterly affronted and surprised by the reaction...

There's patriotism and then there's sheer arrogance.

On the flip side, I worked for an American company for over 5 years and spent a lot of time there - I made some life-long friends and met some of the friendliest, welcoming, warm people it's ever been my pleasure to meet. It's not all bad.

Here are the main reasons that I do not consider the USA to be the best country on earth:

1. High C-section rates, low rates of natural childbirth.

1. Routine infant circumcision for boys.

1. High Infant mortality rate.

1. High Maternal Mortality rate (despite attempts to skew the results in their favour by NOT including all birth related deaths up to one year like other countries.)

1. Prison statistics. With only 4% of global population the US has a shocking 20% of incarcerated people. Some of those are children, some are not mentally sound and too many of them are minorities.

1. The right to bear arms that is taken to the extreme of automatic weapons used to protect property.

1. Foreign policy that involves forcing democracy on everyone by dropping bombs and killing anyone in their way.

Statistically, it simply isn't true. It is an expensive dream but not reality based on facts.

(I am Canadian living internationally so I often have to explain the difference between my country and our neighbours to the South so I admit to having overthought it at times.)

I do think there are a lot of misconceptions about us though. We're not all what you see on TV...most of us aren't. And I think sometimes some things we do are misunderstood.

Though Somerset I have no idea why the band would do that! Madness!

I think it is the grown up equivalent of thinking that your dog that you love so much is the very best dog in the whole wide world. When you are nine your dog is the world's greatest dog. Doesn't mean that you think other dogs have wonderful qualities too.

Many Americans are much more patriotic than Brits and are much more likely to celebrate the positives and be proud of what they have. I like that, I am a dual national who was brought up in Britain and I like being proud of my country and in America it is much more socially acceptable to be openly so.

My phone was about to die so I posted rather hastily before adding that every US citizen we have met overseas has been lovely, generous and open-minded. I think some of the uber-nationalism fades when people venture to live abroad.

Dd2 is a US citizen (born in NYC) and shockingly nationalistic at 6. She adores the photo of her dad with Obama because she views him as her president. Dd1,on the other hand, has a photo of her six year-old-self with the Canadian PM of the day and she probably couldn't locate it s she was unphased even at the time.

YANBU. I mean it's an interesting country and yes, I think my own has some great qualities as well, only normal to be proud. But even people in Detroit were sure I was desperate to escape and stay there - at the time I was living in Switzerland

I hate to admit it, but the French perhaps have the best country in the world so perhaps they have something to be arrogant about. But I love the UK, even with its foibles. I think most Brits love their country - it's just that we the love seems more layered, more subtle sometimes, almost as a parent loves a child, you can see the imperfections but still love unconditionally.

Americans seem - and this is just my impression - more uncomplicated in their patriotism, perhaps because most of them don't travel abroad and therefore have no direct experience of another country to compare. However, the ones who actually do travel appear to be more sophisticated and open minded than the ones who remain in situ (and some of them are on this thread).

Of all the countries I have lived in, visited and/or have friends from, I would probably rate the USA (remember that "America" is also South and Central America) as the lowest in my list of "countries I would live in". I still remember the shock some Americans got when I mentioned that I had once been offered quite a good job in the US and rejected it immediately. The "American Dream" of "success" only works if "success" in your own personal dictionary means "jumping over every other person's head to make loads of money". I could not even imagine living in a country where only people with money have access to healthcare, and even so sometimes are denied treatment because their insurances do not even cover everything. I would be uncomfortable with the way some of my American friends think, in the sense of: success is working as many hours you can, have the best house with a garden, and drive a humongous car. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Apart from that, honestly, every country believes they are the best one... I have seen it in Spain, Italy, the Uk, New Zealand, Australia... but really believing it is just childish. And in general, many of the attitudes of the Americans to life is just that: grossly naive and childish. They seem to always need a "leader" or a "hero" to follow, they love theatrical expressions and loud voices, grandiose gestures and easy tears, and they seem to always need a simple, metaphysical analogy in order to explain the simplest of concepts. A person could never become president if they don't profess an undying belief in a God, preferably the Christian one, and they considered having a mixed-race President in the 21st century as the epitome of progressiveness... New Zealand had a female, agnostic childless woman as a prime minister long before that. Just one of those conditions would mean she wouldn't dream of obtaining that position in America. Women in many American States don't have a choice for abortion, and some even find it hard to have access to contraception. Schools teach about intelligent design.

Should I go on?

No, there is no way the USA is the greatest country in the world, not even close. But hey, if it makes therm feel better to think that while they watch the news and count the number of people murdered, wrongly incarcerated, executed and left to die in the streets, I suppose that's a fair way of looking the other side.

I'm not sure that is completely fair.