Awful situation over inheritance-who is BU?

[whoisright]

I have namechanged as this is such a volatile subject in my family....despite the fact that nobody has even died yet

It is a long story and it is bothering me every day because I do not know what to do or say and it is causing no end of upset and stress within the family.

I am the eldest of 3, our parents divorced years ago. My mum lives in family home (big-ish house in good area) with my younger sister who is planning on moving out soon with her dp so they can live together.

HOWEVER dsis has some health issues (epilepsy) and our mum wants to provide for her so the house will (when our parents have died) go to her, if she has moved out she will just move straight back in again and take it over (no mortgage so she wont have to worry about paying as she has no job).

I have accepted this, but my brother is livid. absolutely livid and has said there is no way he will accept this, he wants the house sold and the money split 3 ways. He has said that yes, she is ill but that we all have problems in our lives and it shouldnt be just one child that is provided for.
He himself has a good job, 2 children but a lot of debt and is renting so sees the money as possibly a deposit for a house and he has mentioned to me that my circumstances are not great (we live in a council house, have 4 dcs with a genetic condition and debts too) but really after living with my sister and seeing her every day I know she will never really be able to work so will not get a chance to get a house like that-she is currently waiting for a council flat to move in with her dp temporarily untill time comes that hey get the family home.

I think my brother should really give this up now, stop going on about it and just accept it like I have. The last thing I want in a few years time is to be caught up in a horrible battle over a house. Yes, that amount of money would be life changing but at the end of the day it is my mums house and it is her choice which of her children she leaves it to.

It is causing a lot of tension between my brother and sister they are both gearing up towards a huge fight over this at some point and I dont know what to say. What do i do?

In the fourth paragraph of the OP's opening poist, she says "when our parents have died". If the house in which the mother lives is owned jointly by both parents, wouldn't the father have something to say? It's possible though that the mother is still there because it was the matrimonial home with a mother and children living in it so, when the sister leaves home, the mother's circusmtances might well change where the house is concerned.

Apologies if I have something wrong here.

Selling the house now and splitting the proceeds three ways would attract gift tax, I think, (this is payable by the giver, so would radically reduce the amount available to split), LessMissABs.
EscapeintheCity, what steps can the op's mum take to protect her house in the event of her needing care?

My Dbro has grand mal seizures and petit mal absences and works full time. My oarents were always very protective of him and have helped him financially. I would find this deeply hurtful if either of my parents did this.

Your Dsis gets the benefit over teh rest of the family. As the situation is being discussed now, I can understand why your brother wants to talk about it.

Your Mum is BU, it is uneccessary to leave absolutely everything of value to one child, uneccessary to lob this into the family dynamic, and at this stage in her life when anything could happen.

Your DB is being VU and rather horrible - and is he planning to keep this rage up for 35 years?

Bear in mind that maybe your Mum feels a sense of guilt or responsibility for having borne a child who will always need help and support.

If you do anything at all, speak only on behalf of yourself, and only to your Mum. Maybe you could suggest to her that one thing that will be important long term is that you siblings remain as close and co-operative as possible in order to amke sure that your Dsis is OK, and that while you understand that she wants to provide long term security for Dsis, there might be ways of doing it which doesn't exclude you and your DB from the inheritance e.g leaving the house to your Dsis in trust, the value to be split between your children, e.g your Mums grandchildren, on DSis's death, by leaving DSis a big enough share to have a modest house and then divide the rest 3 ways, or whatever.

Unless your DM listens to you and changes her mind, there are 2 outcomes for you and your DB: up to you and your DB, really! Or let him wreck his family relationships and you do as you feel happiest with.

Gift tax???

Are you thinking of capital gains tax on gifts to connected persons? What about private residence exemption?

I have 3 DC and my youngest is epileptic. If his conditions carries on in the same way and he wasnt abke to drive and certain careers were closed to him I think I would leave half of my estate to him and a quarter each to my other two children. I would discuss it with them first.

Ithink your mother needs to think a lot more about this. Brutal fact is, as with any couplethat your sister's partner may survive her. What then - will he just receive your family home where he can live and benefit from whilst perhaps remarrying etc - whilst you and your brother get nothing? I can see that your mum wants to provide for your sister but given your mum's young age the best thing would be to for her to sell the big house. Downsize to a home she can leave to your sister and give you and your brother some cash. If your sister needs help having security in her life then it's fair enough for her to get that. It's not fair for her (and potentially her surviving spouse) to be enriched at your expense. Maybe a 60/20/20 split? Or 50/25/25?

but fluffy having certain careers closed to someone because of an illness doesn't mean they can do 'as well' financially. if you son became a extremely well off would you still? Would you still give him half if it was obvious that it wasn't his epilepsy that was holding back, but actually is attitude.
I am not saying anything negative about your son, but it seems strange to say I would give one child half because he won't be able to do as well as the others. Because in fact he might be able to, many people have good jobs that can not drive.
There are so many variables.
Also the OP is saying that her sister will never be able to work. But it transpires that she isn't quite sure why since many people with epilepsy do work.

I think I would give him more because he suffers such awful seizures, has the piss taken of him at school, has awful side effects from his medication and cant do a lot of things his brothers do and is at risk of SUDEP.
I can't answer the question would I give him more if he does really well finacially because I don't know. At the moment we all just want his seizures to end and for him to be safe, to be able to go on the top deck of a bus without falling down and breaking his neck, to be able to have a bath safely etc. This care costs money.

your sister's partner may survive her. What then - will he just receive your family home where he can live and benefit from whilst perhaps remarrying etc - whilst you and your brother get nothing?

Good point.

Your mum really needs to have a long discussion with a solicitor before making her will.

i would suggest that too northern

fluffy I get that I do. Mum was in her 50s before being diagnosed. Her seizures got worse and worse until she couldn't be left alone.
I do get what I am trying to say is that the OPs mum has made a decision that is made on a lot of variables. Its has been assumed that the ope sister will never work. Chances are that she will be able to at some point in the future. Its assumed she won't ever be independent. Its entirely possible she can be.
A decision has been made to favour one child based on assumptions. Also as the ops mum is only 60 lots could happen in the mean time. Other people could get sick. The sisters epilepsy could be completely under control.

I didn't realise your mum was only 60. I assumed she was quite elderly.

Your sister may end up sorely disappointed if she spends her life waiting for her big inheritance. There is presumably absolutely no reason to think that your mum is likely to die in the next few years.

I have some extended family members who were constantly talking about the inheritance that was coming their way from his grandmother - they had the whole lot spent in their minds. The way they talked about it, the grandmother was on her deathbed. She actually lived for several more years and died in her late 90s. When the will was read, it turned out she had left everything in trust for the use of a third party. It then became all about what they would get when the trust beneficaiary died which actually happened only a couple of years later. It then turned out that they hadn't understood the terms of the trust properly and they weren't actually getting everything - what they actually got was the residue after several other bequests, ultimately leaving them with a relatively small inheritance, rather than the life changing sum they had anticipated.

My In-Laws gave their main house to SIL because they felt sorry for her for various reasons. They are still alive, they now live in a smaller house which they say they will leave to DH and BIL (but of course it might end up funding a care home).

SIL was married when the house was given, she has no children.
She divorced.
Now her exH's and then his grown up son (he had left home by the time SIL married her ex, has never even met the PIL) have half of PILs house.
And BIL lives in a really small bad house with 3 kids, the PILs grandchildren, sharing a box room.

People make very stupid decisions for well intentioned reasons.

Just wanted to add fluffy that if your sons condition does effect his life as you described (which I hope it doesn't) what you propose seems fair. Where as completely disinheriting your other kids completely, imo, is different

the system is really screwed i think, there should be a third party. to help people to see sense.

Sometimes it is possible to be fair by not being equal.
I don't think the OP's mother is being fair but just wanted to add my two pennies worth from a mothers perspective.

hate hate hate the sort of attitude your brother has.

Anyway, it is silly to argue over it, as your mum my live to be 96, and you might all end up supporting her!

It is stupid to ave the argument for the next 30 odd years, imo.

poor you.

Whether it's fair or not it really is up to your Mother what she does with her money. But on the other hand leaving all your money to one child unless that child has costly medical and/or care needs does seem very unfair indeed. And nobody can predict what will happen in future.

I've seen this, or the potential for it, in two generations.

My uncle has almost certainly undiagnosed aspergers - very vulnerable, lives alone, lived with my grandparents until their deaths. Grandmother left him the house and my mum (who is well off) has never quite forgiven her.

In our generation my twin brothers have HFA and are unlikely to live or work independently. I am quite happy for them to receive an unequal share of the inheritance although I hope nobody will be getting it for many years to come!

The current arrangement we have is that some money is currently being
put in trust and further inherited money will go into a trust when the time comes. Myself and older bro are trustees, the trust money is to be used for the benefit of all four of us but on the understanding that we will see to the twins needs first, if that makes sense.

In the hope that you all have at least another 20 years to consider this, I'd say you need to have a family discussion with open minds on all sides, to work out what legal/financial set up best provides for your mums care, your sisters future needs, and doesn't leave you and your brother feeling unfairly treated. Sounds like you are not without needs yourself as a family.

Good luck!

Your sister sounds like a lazy, entitled, bullying specimen who expects not to work in life and have everything handed to her on a plate. Imagine the idea of even thinking of running your life waiting for your loved one to die? That's shameful.

You sound like an utter mug.

If I were your brother, I'd leave both your mum and sis to it, not because of the money, but because of their attitudes, and never have a thing to do with either of them again.

After all, they have you do to their dirtywork, gratis, when your mum gets old and your lazy sister who 'can't work' won't be bothered to lift a finger. Stop being a mug.

OP, stop being such a doormat!! How can you accept that your DM just loves you all in different ways? I totally agree with your brother. I think your DM has made a woefully uniformed decision (at best - a very cruel one at worst). Your sister sounds totally entitled. If she is 25, is she planning on waiting what could be 30 years before having children? Good god, shit like this makes me pleased to be an only child!

If anyone of my adult children decided to challenge a choice I made as to what to do with my estate when I die, I would be furious and consider them to be grasping entitled and greedy. They would very quickly be told to learn to stand on there own two feet and stop waiting to jump into a dead persons shoes.

I would be utterly ashamed of them

On the other hand, though, Stocking, her sister sounds like a lazy, entitled, mean-spirited mare.

OP, life is way too short to be a mug. Stop pandering to your sister.

As for what your mother does, her choice, but she's only 60.

Yes she does, but would the sister or mother describe her in the same way?