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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To not buy a poppy

492 replies

Hippymum89 · 09/11/2012 10:38

Why is it more important to remember the death of a soldier who died fighting for the country (or so he believed) than the death of every other person who has died?
What about all the others who have died helping others? Were their lives less important? Or the little old lady who died in hospital at the age of 97, she didn't kill any Germans, or rescue people. She lived her life, but doesn't that count?
I think poppys glorify war and therefore murder, so I will not be buying one.

OP posts:
ethelb · 09/11/2012 12:07

I grew up in Winchester. I do.

I also had a boyf who was going to join the RAF (his family worked for them too) and decided against it as I felt he couldn't justify takign part on modern warfare, as it was always going to be disporportionate force.

Its not the case that everyone in the military hasn't considered the different view points. People on here are far more narrow than in rl imo.

InNeedOfBrandy · 09/11/2012 12:07

I'm not even going to get started on the fuckwitted views you are sharing on here. OP if it wasn't for the WW1 and 2 we wouldn't live in the free society we have today. There wouldn't be a internet forum to post on as the computer was invented through the war and you wouldn't have the right to express your views and thoughts.

I don't think your a very nice person so again what squeaky said, and then fuck off some more..

MrsDeVere · 09/11/2012 12:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/11/2012 12:08

anklebitersmum I felt sure there would be some servicemen's family on here but didn't want to presume. It's easy to say ridiculous things like she is over the Internet. Give some people a keyboard and they become a warrior. Really sorry you have to read this kind of stuff :(.

ethelb - you are actually quite an unpleasant person aren't you? So what you're saying is 1) all soldiers are murderers 2) they don't deserve charitable status as veterans 3) you don't believe the veterans and those lost in all wars since WWI deserve to be remembered for their sacrifices.

Why exactly do you think cancer charities shouldn't exist?

Also. You don't have to agree with every war or indeed any war to support soldiers. I don't agree with the Iraq war. Do you honestly believe every single servicemen does? Honestly? Do you understand how being in the services works? You pledge to defend Queen and Country no matter what, you don't pledge to defend Queen and Country "as long as you personally agee with the command given".

How dense can you be?!

WileyRoadRunner · 09/11/2012 12:10

Its not the case that everyone in the military hasn't considered the different view points. People on here are far more narrow than in rl imo.

I don't believe for a second they would entertain the shit that you are spouting on here about them being "murderers" for a second.

Sallyingforth · 09/11/2012 12:10

I have just come across this thread, and I'm glad you Hippymum have already been robustly answered.
But I still need to add my own FUCK OFF to you and to any other miserable selfish misguided bastard who might agree with you.

SusanneLinder · 09/11/2012 12:10

I don't really think there should be cancer charities actually no.

Thanks for that! 30 years ago, the cancer my DH had would have killed him.Thanks to the work of Cancer Research and similar charities, he is alive.

Yunno you have managed to insult so many people on this thread. You are either a shit stirring troll, or you are one of the most offensive people I have ever come across on Mumsnet.I really hope you are the former.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 12:10
  1. they don't deserve charitable status as veterans

I didn't say that. I said that I don't think they should have to rely on charities. the support should be there anyway.

Same with cancer chairites. Its disgusting that mcmillan nurses are mainly charity funded.

ArbitraryUsername · 09/11/2012 12:11

And to be clear, we (as a population) should insist that the state provides properly to veterans and their families. We live in a democracy; it's not outwith our control.

Ethel: I really don't think it's at all useful to use words like 'murderer' in this context. It's not at all the correct word. And, if those who fight for us are 'murderers', the we all are. We're all implicated in the killing aspect of war undertaking on our behalf.

MrsDeVere · 09/11/2012 12:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 12:12

@arbitrary I agree. That's why so many people argue for war to 'not be in my name' as we are all implicated in the violence.

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/11/2012 12:15

ethelb no they shouldn't have to,but that is what happens.

Are you trying to backtrack after calling them all murderers?

Also...explain why there should be no cancer charities...go on. Might as well offend everybody as this point. In for a penny,in for a pound and all that.

MrsDeVere · 09/11/2012 12:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 12:17

There should be no cancer charities as it is something the state should fund. We have some of the worst funding in the developed world for research and I think ther should be more pressure on the government to readdress its priorities.

No, I'm not backtracking on the murder comment. Killing people is killing people. Sometimes it is more justified than other times but it is murder. I'm shocked that so many of you are shocked by this simple statement. As I initially said, it wasn't to offend. Just a valid opinion as expressed by the op.

squeakytoy · 09/11/2012 12:18

"I don't really think there should be cancer charities actually no"

you can have a fuck off as well...

My dad died of cancer, without the help of two very amazing charities, Macmillan and Marie Curie, his last few months and those of mum who was caring for him would have been even more horrendous than they were.

Words almost fail me at the utter ignorance and twattish comments on this thread.

CookingFunt · 09/11/2012 12:19

Yes there are those that knowingly took innocent lives during war. They are a disservice to their country and should not be included in the poppy wearing,but they are.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 12:20

squeaky to - or would political parties have had to make real election promises and be held to account? Just a thought.

ArbitraryUsername · 09/11/2012 12:20

I agree that it's awful that nursing care for those affected by cancer requires charity, but I don't agree at all that there should be no cancer charities. Cancer charities undertake a wide range of tasks and I don't necessarily have a problem with many of them being charitably funded (not actual nursing care that the patient requires though; that should come from our taxes via the NHS).

Cancer is very different to war, though. Cancer, and other illnesses aren't caused by something the state asks it's sufferers to do (usually, and where they are, the state should compensate people and look after them). War deaths, injuries and the mental health problems that are directly caused by fighting in wars only arise because the state requires people to be soldiers and fight on it's (our) behalf. So I think the obligations on the state (and us through our taxes) are different. It is a scandal that this is left up to people's discretion.

LtEveDallas · 09/11/2012 12:21

MrsDeVere, your DH and, I firmly believe, your DD paid the ultimate price, and were badly let down, by the Army and the Government. I echo your "thank fuck for the RBL" Thanks

Oh and Ethelb - I am a soldier yes, but a murderer? No.
THAT is why I find you, and the OP offensive.

Pinkspottyegg · 09/11/2012 12:21

Because I cannot think of any other job where there is a higher danger of being killed or (even worse) having to kill someone and living with that. We wear a poppy to remember them and the huge sacrifice they made.
Lest we forget

domesticdiva · 09/11/2012 12:21

I don't really think there should be cancer charities actually no.

Seriously REALLY!!!!!????? Wow you really have a warped way of looking at things ethleb!!!

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/11/2012 12:21

ethelB with regard to charities...is it a crime that people,normal people,choose to set up charities such as cancer charities? The state does provide treatment of course. People are choosing to donate money to charities because that extra money provides more help,research and support to those in need. The same goes for all other charities,for any other illness or cause (such as animal charities)

How can you possibly think that is wrong?

BreeVanDerTramp · 09/11/2012 12:22

ethel where do you think the state could free up this money from? I'd be interested in your ideas.

EldritchCleavage · 09/11/2012 12:23

To be honest, the fact that servicemen and women have had to go out and kill other people is part of why we bear witness through the Festival of Remembrance. It is horrific. It's not just about the injured or dead. People go through terrible things in conflict, and it is important to me to recognise that.

anklebitersmum · 09/11/2012 12:23

I've certainly seen and heard worse than ethelb in RL. I put the 'likes' of some people in the same catagory as the moron who spat at my hubby and called him a baby killer as we made our way home from a funeral.

Raised some interesting questions from my children as we got back to the car Sad

Still, as long as they're exercising their right to 'free' speech in their 'free' country, eh?