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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not buy a poppy

492 replies

Hippymum89 · 09/11/2012 10:38

Why is it more important to remember the death of a soldier who died fighting for the country (or so he believed) than the death of every other person who has died?
What about all the others who have died helping others? Were their lives less important? Or the little old lady who died in hospital at the age of 97, she didn't kill any Germans, or rescue people. She lived her life, but doesn't that count?
I think poppys glorify war and therefore murder, so I will not be buying one.

OP posts:
ethelb · 09/11/2012 11:47

It could be argued we were agressors in WW1. And definalty in Iraq etc. So is it ok to accept those soldiers were murderers?

Or do you just call anything you are uncomfortable with 'offensive'.

NessunDorma · 09/11/2012 11:49

Jesus H Christ.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 11:49

@bree another reason I don't buy poppies is that I am so appalled by the way veterans and the army are treated, that I don't agree with treating them as chairity cases. It is something that the state should pay for.

Wealthy charities reduce pressure on the Government to behave appropriately imo.

soverylucky · 09/11/2012 11:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GhostShip · 09/11/2012 11:52

The likes of ethelb need to give their heads a wobble.

ArbitraryUsername · 09/11/2012 11:53

Alisvolatpropiis (I hope I got that right): the fact that current servicemen and women's kit is not up to standard reflects very poorly on the MoD and our government more generally. If the state sends men and women out to fight for it, it should bloody well provide for them properly. Similarly, it should provide properly for them afterwards; it is beyond appalling that so many leave the armed forces so damaged and with such inadequate support.

This really has nothing to do with whether one supports a given war (or any war). It is just basic decency. I doesn't really matter that people now choose to join the armed forces; the state is not keeping up its end of the bargain, and that is dreadful.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 11:54

sorry Ghostship? want to actually clarify what you mean?

" ignoring who was to blame " why the hell would you ignore who was to blame Shock

Do you honestly think that what patronisingly muttering 'lest we forget'? Jeez.

BreeVanDerTramp · 09/11/2012 11:54

ethel a friend lost her 3 year old DD to neuroblastoma, her relapse could have been treated in the states at a cost of £250k. The government do not pay for this treatment, I don't agree with this but it didn't stop me doing all I could to help raise the money needed.

LtEveDallas · 09/11/2012 11:56

I remember all soldiers that fought to make the world a better place. Whether that is the veterans of WWI and II, the soldiers fighting terrorism in NI, the soldiers who went to Iraq and deposed a genocidal manic or the soldiers currently serving in Afghanistan, trying to stop the Taliban and Sharia Law.

I support the families of those soldiers who may have suffered hardships due to their soldiers' sacrifice.

Whether the Government should pay for them or not is irrelevant - they don't. The RBL is a bloody fabulous organisation that helps ALL military, ex military, spouses and dependants - no matter their service, creed, colour, religion et al. They do NOT put conditions on their support, they just give it. Oh and the Poppy production itself is completed by able bodied and disabled ex servicemen and their families. People who couldn't get jobs elsewhere - Remploy (something else the Government has now fucked).

WileyRoadRunner · 09/11/2012 11:56

It is something that the state should pay for.

As a taxpayer it would make me no difference if the state did pay.

I would still donate every year.

EldritchCleavage · 09/11/2012 11:56

Government should do a lot more for veterans, true. But I think it is important that the citizens who benefit from their military service should directly participate in supporting veterans. Not sure I'd like a situation where it was all dealt with by benefits and we stood back.

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/11/2012 11:57

ethelb

What you are saying is offensive.

There is no way you would spout all that shit about them being "murderers" to a serviceman or a member of their family.

You can bleat on about how "they shouldn't be charity cases,they state should pay for it" as much as you like. the fact of the matter is the state does not and has not ever paid out. And by your logic there should be no cancer charities,because we have an NHS and the state should pay for it.

WileyRoadRunner · 09/11/2012 11:58

There is no way you would spout all that shit about them being "murderers" to a serviceman or a member of their family.

I agree Alisvolatpropiis. Very offensive. Not "uncomfortable" as ethelb puts it - simply offensive.

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/11/2012 11:59

ArbitraryUsername I really could have picked an easier username in hindsight lol!

I agree with you.

ArbitraryUsername · 09/11/2012 11:59

Bree, I think the case of a sick child needing expensive treatment is quite different and it's not helpful to compare them. The child's illness was not directly causes by actions the state asked her to undertake. A soldier's death or a veteran's injury/poor mental health is directly caused by the actions the state asked (or required) him or her to undertake. Therefore, the state has an obligation to properly support that veteran and/or their family.

Unfortunately illness is inevitable (and I mean no disrespect by that); war is not, and should not, be.

anklebitersmum · 09/11/2012 12:01

thing is, she is spouting all that shit about them being murderers to a serviceman's family Angry

JustinBoobie · 09/11/2012 12:01

I'm so glad you started this OP, in the tone that you did and then simply fucked off...

Confused
BreeVanDerTramp · 09/11/2012 12:02

Sorry arbitary I was trying to make the point that Ethel doesn't buy a poppy as she thinks the government should pay to support military personnel and their families. I also think they should pay for a lot of things but they don't - it doesn't mean I prove this point by not donating to charity.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 12:02

I don't really think there should be cancer charities actually no.

Plus I am fairly open with friends in the military or with family in the military about my feelings. I don't think they should be shielded from that. And nor do they.

XBenedict · 09/11/2012 12:02

"There is no way you would spout all that shit about them being "murderers" to a serviceman or a member of their family."

She is!

PickledFanjoCat · 09/11/2012 12:02

They probably find you amusing.

PickledFanjoCat · 09/11/2012 12:03

X post! X post!

Bollocks you call servicemen murders to their families. Big fat hairy bollocks.

ArbitraryUsername · 09/11/2012 12:04

We do have some control over what the state does though. We are all implicated in the fact that it does not meet its obligations to those who are or have been in the armed forces. It doesn't reflect we'll on our society at all, and we should be ashamed of it.

I don't think it should just be dealt with through 'benefits'. It's not at all the same thing as unemployment or disability in the general population. It should be about the ongoing support needs of those who serve in the armed forces and those who have served in them. That should be part of the MoD budget and proper provision should be made.

WileyRoadRunner · 09/11/2012 12:04

Plus I am fairly open with friends in the military or with family in the military about my feelings. I don't think they should be shielded from that. And nor do they

I just don't believe that you really have any friends in the military with views like that. I just don't.

BreeVanDerTramp · 09/11/2012 12:05

FFS then I actually give up. Lets leave everyone to their own devices, I'm sure the government will bail than out Hmm