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Original poster

To not buy a poppy

492 replies

Hippymum89 · 09/11/2012 10:38

Why is it more important to remember the death of a soldier who died fighting for the country (or so he believed) than the death of every other person who has died?
What about all the others who have died helping others? Were their lives less important? Or the little old lady who died in hospital at the age of 97, she didn't kill any Germans, or rescue people. She lived her life, but doesn't that count?
I think poppys glorify war and therefore murder, so I will not be buying one.

OP posts:
EldritchCleavage · 09/11/2012 11:01

It is not (as I think you know full well) about the relative importance of those who fought or fight against those who haven't.

The commemoration is about recognising sacrifice. If we dropped it, a lot of ordinary, especially working class and young people who have done very brave and good things for the country would drop out of public view altogether, which I think would be a bad thing.

I actually think that whether you agree those military conflicts or engagements should have been entered into is beside the point. In a democracy, there is a kind of covenant between those who serve and those who govern: the former submit to democratic control by parliament (so go and fight whatever they as individuals think about what they are being sent to do) and the latter is supposed never to misuse that commitment and sacrifice in the cause of oppression. We as the public register appreciation of what those who have done military service endure in the defence of the rest of us.

The fact that we are pants about recognising other kinds of service and sacrifice isn't, to my mind, a reason to stop celebrating this one. I suppose the honours list is supposed to do this, but it isn't very public. It would be nice if there were an equivalent of the Festival of Remembrance for civilians who've made particular contributions to public life, and a specific day to honour them. If there were a flower for that, I'd happily wear it, but not to the exclusion of the poppy.

ethelb · 09/11/2012 11:01

hippymum I agree with you.

I don't wear a poppy as though I am grateful for the freedom I have and respect the lives of the fallen, i don't want to be associated with the mob on here (and in RL) who simply can't get their head around the fact that someone might disagree with them.

LtEveDallas · 09/11/2012 11:01

YY Squeakytoy.

BooyhooRemembering · 09/11/2012 11:02

squeaky you are lucky enough to have been taught about it. i certainly wasn't and i'm sure tehre are posters here who weren't either. not all posters were born and raised in the UK.

Chandon · 09/11/2012 11:02

I don' t wear a poppy.

I get quite a bit of stick for it too from DH and inlaws.

But I will not be forced or bullied into wearing one. I resent the pressure.

I am happy to give a donation ( and do), but I just feel strongly about not wearing any logos, emblems, flags, symbols, ribbons etc.

I detest the notion that I should PROVE that I care by wearing one. I prefer my thoughts on this to be private and nothing to do with anyone else.

Gigondas · 09/11/2012 11:03

But Diana2000 as time goes on and unfortunately we have more wars, it is inevitable (and right) that more recent conflicts are remembered . I don't think it takes away from remembering ww1 or ww2 - my grandfather died nearly 20 years ago but I always remember and wear poppy for him and his comrades.

And op- yabu as others have said. Your argument could apply to all sorts of charities - does the recent "stand up for cancer" campaign mean that don't care about other illnesses? It's not an all or nothing concept when you choose to support remember or support one cause.

KenLeeeeeee · 09/11/2012 11:03

Remembering those who died in war doesn't mean you're excluding those who died tragically under other circumstances. It's not all or nothing, ffs. The first couple of weeks of November are the time set aside to remember that war is an awful thing where lots of lives are lost. I think that is a very valuable thing to keep in mind.

LtEveDallas · 09/11/2012 11:04

not all posters were born and raised in the UK

OP was though Booyhoo. I have a hard time believing that she really didn't know - she was just looking for a row, and she got one.

BooyhooRemembering · 09/11/2012 11:04

" I wasn't talking about recent military deaths. The OP had asked about the families of veterans and why they needed support. "

there are war veterans of more recent wars than WW1 and WW2. if you meant those wars you should have clarified. the poppy isn't used just to remember those people.

festereagain · 09/11/2012 11:05

what ethelb said. And what chandon said.

WelshMaenad · 09/11/2012 11:06

Well, go and give some money to that charity that honours and supports everyone who has ever been ill or died if anything, ever, then.

Oh. Wait.

Every cause has its focus. In supporting a cancer event you do not 'disrespect' or demonstrate indifference towards those who die of heart disease. You just may show support for them at a different time. Rememberance Sunday is the time we show support for our dead and wounded soldiers. I am a pacifist, but I am profoundly grateful that the sacrifices of these soldiers gave me the liberty to be one. Buy a poppy, or don't. But please don't cast aspersions in the motives if those who choose to acknowledge the enormity of what these soldiers did for us.

BooyhooRemembering · 09/11/2012 11:06

well i was born and raised in the UK and have only i the past couple of years began to understand what it was all about. does that make me a moron, ignorant fuckwit, stupid, uneducated?

LtEveDallas · 09/11/2012 11:06

Dont be obtuse Booyhoo - the OP specifically said about the "Old lady dying at 97 who didn't kill any Germans"

Maybe she should have clarified.

GhostShip · 09/11/2012 11:08

They fought for our freedom you imbecile.

My great great great grandad died in the battle of Somme. I go to the monument with his name on to show my great respect for the sacrifice they made.

Not buying a poppy for the reasons you've reported is disgustingly ignorant.

NoTeaForMe · 09/11/2012 11:09

The poppies aren't about glorifying war, they are about remembering the people who died for their country. They fought so that everyone else and Everyone for generations to come can have freedom and live happily and in peace (in theory!) If they hadn't done what they did we would not be the country we are today.

I think the old lady dying at 97 is a ridiculous comparison! Everyone dies at some point...she died in her sleep after living a full happy life (hypothetically speaking of course) she didn't die heroically fighting for her country!

Don't wear one if you don't want, make a stand against remembering and thanking all the young men who died so that you could live. You do that...but it makes you a twat!

BooyhooRemembering · 09/11/2012 11:09

she also said

"What about all the others who have died helping others? Were their lives less important? "

the others weren't just in the first or second world wars.

XBenedict · 09/11/2012 11:10

Oh dear the old argument about poppies glorifying war Sad

Of course you don't need to buy a poppy or wear one. It's a free country.........!

I don't wear a poppy everyday at this time of year. I start with one but DD usually eats it/pulls it apart etc. I have a small enamel one I wear on my uniform but out and about I have rarely got one and I have NEVER been challenged about it.

GhostShip · 09/11/2012 11:12

My nan was a little old lady who died at 83

She made bombs in the war.

So that little old lady we're talking about...

WileyRoadRunner · 09/11/2012 11:13

well i was born and raised in the UK and have only i the past couple of years began to understand what it was all about. does that make me a moron, ignorant fuckwit, stupid, uneducated?

I don't like the wording but unless you are 6 then yes.

LtEveDallas · 09/11/2012 11:13

^she also said
What about all the others who have died helping others? Were their lives less important^

'Others' meaning not in the military.

Why are you arguing this? OP asked a stupid question, quite offensively and people have replied in kind. What does it matter to you?

BooyhooRemembering · 09/11/2012 11:15

why wiley? do you know everything about every topic? are you educated about every single thing? did you know all these facts from the moment you left school or did you learn some things as you got older?

ethelb · 09/11/2012 11:16

I don't think OP was offensive. I think she has a valid opinion. Slightly simplistic, but valid.

LtEveDallas · 09/11/2012 11:17

I think poppys glorify war and therefore murder

That is offensive.

NoTeaForMe · 09/11/2012 11:18

BooyHoo are you missing the point on purpose? Yes, lots of people die from saving someone. (There's actually a wall full of plaques in London thanking people who have done just this, don't think it's added to anymore, but it's a lovely wall-featured in the film 'Closer')

A man who saved a person from drowning only to drown themselves is, of course, a hero. Especially to people who knew him or to the family of the person that would have died without him. But if you can't see how this is different to the hundreds of thousands of young men who lost their lives fighting to protect their whole country for generations and generations to come then there's no help for you!

squeakytoy · 09/11/2012 11:18

I honestly cant understand how anyone born and raised in the UK gets to adult age without knowing about the meaning of wearing a poppy. Seriously, I cant.

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