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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Moral dilemma

134 replies

LadyEatsCrispsALot · 04/11/2012 22:16

I met my best friends new baby of three weeks. She is adorable, but I have noticed some facial characteristics that lead me to believe she possibly has Downs Syndrome. I come from a medical background. My partner also met her and independently voiced his concerns of the same. He is also a medical background. I should mention my friend is not in the 'system' and chose not to have any scans or blood tests and had a home birth with an independant midwife. So do I tell my best friend our thoughts and risk our friendship? My main concern is an undiagnosed heart defect and if anything happened to the baby, I would hate myself for not saying anything. Or just tell her my worries and if she wants to follow it up then its up to her. It's really difficult. Any thoughts gratefully received.

OP posts:
YellowDinosaur · 05/11/2012 08:20

THANKS sparkle for clarifying that. So it's possible that the op friend has had the same level of input from her private midwife isn't it?

I agree that if her friend anti medicine approach extends to her child it is a child protection issue. But nothing so far says she definitely won't go for the basic checks. I knew someone like the op friend who refused scans and vaccinations and had a home birth. But she didn't prevent her child from seeing a doctor when they needed it.

Without further information so are all just adding 2 and 2 together and making 5 - you might all be right but I don't like always presuming the worst without questioning the situation further.

ENormaSnob · 05/11/2012 08:41

If the indie Mw has completed the enb module.

DontmindifIdo · 05/11/2012 08:57

OP - do you really think it either can't wait for the 6 week check or that you are sure she won't go for that? Have you asked her if she's seen the health visitor or a GP already or is she's being totally off radar for medical professionals?

The fact that she doesn't want to immunise and didn't want a hospital birth doesn't mean she won't register her DD with her GP and won't allow the health visitor in (who round here at least always do a home visit in the first few weeks). I know a few mums who are a bit "woo" and had home births and don't do immunisation (relying on me and other mothers giving our DCs the jabs), but they have all registered their DCs with the GPs, they all went for early checks and all did at least meet the health visitors (even if they then dismissed what they said that didn't match how they had already decided to raise their DCs).

I would check that before saying anything personally, just because it might be better coming from someone independant rather than a friend.

fuzzpig · 05/11/2012 09:27

Very worrying situation. Why is she so drastically anti-medicine? Surely most people realise that there are some things that only medical intervention can cure (surgery?!) - I don't know much about all that stuff though.

I hope it goes well today.

Piemistress · 05/11/2012 09:39

Good luck today OP

DeWe · 05/11/2012 09:43

The problem from how I see it is that small babies can look facially ds when they are nt. I've seen several babies at a young age that I've wondered about, but only one has been (and yes the parents were aware).

COuld you look for other signs before you check? I know that ds babies often only have one crease rather than 2 on their hands (I have a friend who was told her baby was likely to be ds for that reason-she wasn't) and there may be other soft markers that you could check subtly first.

If there was a heart problem then surely the MW, independant or not, should have checked this at birth, and followed it up. If she didn't then she should be struck off. I doubt that even a medicine-disbelieving mum would fail to act upon a heart issue, and if she did refuse to act on it the MW should have been involving child protection agencies.

Good luck with what you do anyway.

Blu · 05/11/2012 09:52

I would deal with the specific symptoms, which sound, to non-medical me, like the 'mottled peripheries'. If this could possibly be indicative of anything to do with the heart I would say something like 'I've been meaning to double check with you - has baby been checked regularly for heart function because I noticed clearly mottled peripheries - obviously could be nothing, but it it's something it can be quickly dealt with'.

This means you are addressing medical symptoms, not an overall suspicion, iyswim, and it is the heart aspect of DS that is a concern - and possibly feeding difficulties relating to tonge / muscle tone, as I understand it. The possible DS is not an issue per se, and as a much berated 'lentil weaving' mum, this baby may be lucky in being accepted as she is, in many ways. I think people are being rather harsh - but of course medical symptoms need urgent attention, and I agree that you probably do have a duty.

Does your medical background not give ethical guidance on your reposnibilities beyond your workplace?

Good luck, and I hope that the baby is fine and thriving whatever her chromosomal status.

Jenny70 · 05/11/2012 11:30

I have been here, was my friend's nephew and although I knew Mum she isn't my friend.

I checked his toes (subtly) as DS often have a deep cleft between big toe & second. He didn't have much of one, but I did mention it (he was 4m at the time I met him) and didn't mention DS, just that I wondered if his health checkup was thorough, as he didn't make eye contact.

His mum took him to GP and he has a chromosome issue, not DS.

NutellaNutter · 05/11/2012 11:52

Definitely don't say anything. Mums are hyperaware and if there is anything amiss she would have noticed it.

fuzzpig · 05/11/2012 12:10

Unfortunately that's not always true, Nutella. Of course we aren't to know whether it is true with the OP's friend, but some parents are deep in denial about any problems their children might have - I speak from bitter experience.

CwtchesAndCuddles · 05/11/2012 12:11

I think the issue is that the mum may be in denial and the op is woried about there being a risk to the baby.

mutny · 05/11/2012 12:18

Mums are hyperaware and if there is anything amiss she would have noticed it.

Really? Why do we need doctors then?
that isn't true at all. Often parents can't see what everyone else does.

mutny · 05/11/2012 12:21

I think the way that blu suggests is the way to go.

CaseyShraeger · 05/11/2012 14:11

Nutella, I had no idea that DD2 was deaf until her retest at two months old, even though she'd failed the newborn screen. I just thought she was laid-back. After the diagnosis it seemed so obvious and I couldn't imagine how I'd missed it.

steppemum · 05/11/2012 14:35

nutella, we ahd a child who used to come to our mums and toddlers group. Her nanny brought her. Child was 1 and couldn't sit or even roll over herself. Nanny was concerned, felt there was something wrong. Mum was apparently laid back, said she will do it in her own time. Nanny was agonising over whether to take child to HV behind mums back.

Never did find out what happened, but no, I don't think mums always notice, I think sometimes mums can be starry eyed about their darling and not realise that they are not doing what other kids do at that age.

fedupofnamechanging · 05/11/2012 14:59

I wouldn't contact her HV behind her back - that is one way to definitely alienate her and ruin your friendship forever. And it would likely do no good anyway - she is under no obligation to see her HV and if she is anti the idea she will simply refuse. Health visiting is a service that parents have a right to make use of or decline, as they see fit.

Not wanting to have a hospital birth or see a HV does not indicate that this woman would refuse to seek medical help for her child or register her baby with a GP. It just means she is a bit lentil weavery.

I do think that you have an obligation to tell her what your concerns are though. A true friend doesn't shy away from difficult things but does the right thing by their friend, which in my opinion is to tell them the truth as you see it. Obviously in a gentle and tactful way.

If she ignores you and refuses to get her baby checked, then you may have to reassess what you do next, but going behind her back in the first instance would be a mistake. Whatever you decide, you should be honest and up front about it.

Original poster
LadyEatsCrispsALot · 05/11/2012 17:12

Ok update. I went to see my friend this afternoon and said I had noticed a few things I was concerned about. She told me they knew he had Downs but were not telling anyone yet! She is fully checked out, bloods confirm the diagnosis. She is under a Community Paediatricians care now. Heart appears to be okay too. I am soooooo relieved!

OP posts:
Sirzy · 05/11/2012 17:14

Glad things are being monitored and your comments didn't cause problems

CaseyShraeger · 05/11/2012 17:15

Aww, that's lovely that she's so at ease with it. It's quite funny in retrospect though that you were so nervous about suggesting the possibility!

lljkk · 05/11/2012 17:15

Awww... after all that angst!
I hope she appreciates how sensitive you were trying to be about it.
Good luck with supporting her.

MrsVincentPrice · 05/11/2012 17:31

Oh thank heavens for that - and thank goodness you didn't approach her HV behind her back.

Original poster
LadyEatsCrispsALot · 05/11/2012 18:40

I know. Just relieved its all sorted and they dealing with it. Thanks everyone x

OP posts:
mutny · 05/11/2012 18:45

So glad its sorted and she has medical assistance.

mutny · 05/11/2012 18:46

Sorry by assistance Iran has had yet heart checked etc.

mutny · 05/11/2012 18:47

Ffs how iran slipped in there. I meant I mean.

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