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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Moral dilemma

134 replies

LadyEatsCrispsALot · 04/11/2012 22:16

I met my best friends new baby of three weeks. She is adorable, but I have noticed some facial characteristics that lead me to believe she possibly has Downs Syndrome. I come from a medical background. My partner also met her and independently voiced his concerns of the same. He is also a medical background. I should mention my friend is not in the 'system' and chose not to have any scans or blood tests and had a home birth with an independant midwife. So do I tell my best friend our thoughts and risk our friendship? My main concern is an undiagnosed heart defect and if anything happened to the baby, I would hate myself for not saying anything. Or just tell her my worries and if she wants to follow it up then its up to her. It's really difficult. Any thoughts gratefully received.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 04/11/2012 23:50

So why didn't you say something to her, OP? I can't believe that you, with medical training, noticed something wrong with a baby's breathing patterns and said nothing. Never mind the DS - whether or not the baby has that is incidental at the moment. You noticed the baby had a breathing problem and said nothing to her mum - you really, really need to look at yourself over this.

Original poster
LadyEatsCrispsALot · 04/11/2012 23:51

I know Imperial, but what if I'm wrong?

OP posts:
Original poster
LadyEatsCrispsALot · 04/11/2012 23:52

This is my best friend, why i am dithering?

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 04/11/2012 23:55

It's not a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of being concerned.

If you said to any new mum, "I hate to say this, but I think you should get your baby's breathing checked out" then 99.9999999% would do so immediately. The remainder deserve to be reported to their GP.

This is your best friend and post natal decisions aren't always wise. Do what is best for her, not necessarily what she thinks is best for her.

Ruprekt · 04/11/2012 23:57

You have to say something.

But how difficult - I really feel for you.

Original poster
LadyEatsCrispsALot · 04/11/2012 23:58

Ok thanks Imperial. I really am off to bed now, but will make a phone call in the morning. :)

OP posts:
plumedematante · 05/11/2012 00:01

Yes, I wonder why you're dithering. What with your background and everything.

Are you a journalist?

MrClaypole · 05/11/2012 00:03

Agree that you must say something for baby's sake.

I cannot believe that the mother has a nursing background and has not had the baby checked due to the breathing/cold issues alone.

mellen · 05/11/2012 00:08

It does seem bizarre that you noticed abnormal breathing and signs of altered circulation in a baby, with the benefit of years of training in paediatrics, but held off from mentioning it because you thought that there might be an underlying genetic cause.

chickydoo · 05/11/2012 00:22

Just read your thread OP
Good luck, follow your gut instinct.

Jcbmgb · 05/11/2012 00:39

You mention Paediatric training but not your profession, are you currently working in Paediatrics?

The only reason I ask is because you have cast doubt on your own judgement/assessment, is this because you are emotionally involved and this is happening in your personal life?

If I brought my baby to you for assessment who had these same breathing difficulties and facial features, what would you say to me?

ChippingInLovesAutumn · 05/11/2012 00:54

I hope it goes OK when you speak to her.

EleanorHandbasket · 05/11/2012 06:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lljkk · 05/11/2012 07:36

I like what TwitchyTail said, focus on the specific problems you can see now and why they merit urgent medical attention. If she refused I would have to then, however sensitively but directly, raise the other concerns. Sounds like she might take your words in better if you met up in person rather than in a phone call.

Is the baby feeding well? Gaining weight? Quite small at birth (I know not all are). I assume mother is breastfeeding & most Downs babies are so sleepy they struggle to thrive breastfeeding.

It well may not be Downs, it could be another chromosomal abnormality. Which may not mean heart defect but could mean years of support needed to boost immune system, gain decent motor skills, speech therapy. It takes ages for parents to get their heads around the options, never mind the time that may be needed to deal with possible grief about it.

ENormaSnob · 05/11/2012 07:45

Your friend is a fucking idiot.

This is a huge child protection issue IMO.

To ignore is to be complicit.

mutny · 05/11/2012 07:55

So she hasn't/ isn't going to have. her child medically checked over?

Sorry but that is wrong what if the child had cystic fyrobosis?

I agree this is a child protection issue.

YellowDinosaur · 05/11/2012 07:55

To those of you starting to doubt that a doctor in paediatrics wouldn't have already says something...

It's not that straightforward. It's for precisely this reason that you shouldn't treat your close friends and family, because being objective is impossible.

I too am a doctor and had to treat my Mum in a medical emergency and while eventually did the right thing really struggled to trust my medical judgement over what my Dad (not a doctor) was saying. It changes everything when the 'patient' is someone you love.

Op I think it is right to say something and maybe voicing your concerns about possible heart disease because of breathing problems, mottled peripheries and temperature issues is a less threatening approach. Good luck x

YellowDinosaur · 05/11/2012 07:59

And it's only a child protection issue if the baby doesn't see a doctor for the 6 week check or intends not to register with a gp. Which she may be intending to do.

Both my births were in hospital but I presume that babies born at home don't usually have the paediatric check before discharge? Soon that respect things baby is no different.

fluffyraggies · 05/11/2012 08:05

I hope OP keeps us posted.

Feeling quite worried about the baby :(

mutny · 05/11/2012 08:11

And it's only a child protection issue if the baby doesn't see a doctor for the 6 week check or intends not to register with a gp. Which she may be intending to do.

The op said she is anti medicine and will probably not be seeing a health visitor. So no heal prick test etc.

sparkle12mar08 · 05/11/2012 08:11

Yellowdinosaur - Babies born at home have the newborn checks from midwives at birth (APGARS etc) and then a home visit the next day, and at least once, and often twice, more within the first 7 days.

CwtchesAndCuddles · 05/11/2012 08:13

That is a really difficult situation. I think I would have to say something, if you are right the risk of cardiac problems is a huge. I can understand her opting out of the system for immunisations (although I don't agree) but opting out of health checks and screening is putting a child at risk.

I have a friend with a child who has PKU picked up from the heel prick test, because of early diagnosis she is on a very strict diet and is healthy. Undiagnosed the condition could have caused brain / organ damage or even killed her.

I'm assuming there is a back story here to cause the mother to turn her back on conventional modern medicine?

lljkk · 05/11/2012 08:15

I don't think they HAVE to have a homecheck. I also like the idea of autonomy as long as there's no sign of problems; but in this situation there may be some problems. I remember my GP being baffled about why he should have to do baby check at my home, insisting it wasn't his responsibility until the moment he turned up.

ENormaSnob · 05/11/2012 08:16

Yellow, babies born at home still have the enb check at home after birth.

This is done the day after birth by a specially trained midwife.

lljkk · 05/11/2012 08:18

Even if it's an indie MW, ENorma?