Moral dilemma

[LadyEatsCrispsALot]

I met my best friends new baby of three weeks. She is adorable, but I have noticed some facial characteristics that lead me to believe she possibly has Downs Syndrome. I come from a medical background. My partner also met her and independently voiced his concerns of the same. He is also a medical background. I should mention my friend is not in the 'system' and chose not to have any scans or blood tests and had a home birth with an independant midwife. So do I tell my best friend our thoughts and risk our friendship? My main concern is an undiagnosed heart defect and if anything happened to the baby, I would hate myself for not saying anything. Or just tell her my worries and if she wants to follow it up then its up to her. It's really difficult. Any thoughts gratefully received.

Hi, I think it would be helpful if you could provide more information on why you think the baby has Downs?
My eldest son definitely looked like he had DS right up until he was 13 months old, my dd also had similar features when she was a baby.
In reality what they both had was wide set/spaced eyes which were fairly narrow and slightly slanted and a very flat and broad bridge of the nose.

By the time both were 18 months old, their features had changed and they no longer looked as though they had facial features of DS.

Does this baby have the telltale crease across the palm, the fold in the skin at the back of the neck etc etc?
What is the extent of your knowledge about the characteristics of DS in order for you to have these concerns?

In any case, as soon as baby is registered with a GP, she will appear on the radar of the Health Visiting service and they should be able to spot any potential issues.

They would Worra if they saw a GP or HV! /:(

Gosh, that's really tough for you OP. I think you have to say something tbh. You would never forgive yourself if anything happened to the baby.

I don't think she'll thank you for it, but it seems to be your only option, poor you. Good luck.

Ok Jcbmgb. She has a flat bridge of nose, low set ears that are flat and folded at the top, upturned wide almond shaped eyes. She makes unusual mouthing motions, but I didn't really see if the tongue was large. Very small head. a large roll of flesh behind the neck. She has difficulty regulating her temperature. Mottled peripheries evident.

Well that's what I mean...sorry but she doesn't sound very intelligent to me.

I'll go as far as to say she sounds quite selfish.

It's one thing being a lentil weaving earth mother but to choose medical intervention (private midwife) when her life might have been at risk...yet not afford the same care to her baby, is beyond selfish imo.

Ah Worra you are a wise woman. I love her to bits, but I have to avoid any discussion regarding immunisations, child health etc. as it will just be an impasse of views. Which is why it's so difficult!

I understand how annoying it is...I had a friend who was very similar.

But when she chose no medical intervention, she chose that for herself too...so as much as I didn't understand her, she at least went without a midwife too.

Just as fucking stupid but I suppose one could say she was at least 'fair' IYKWIM.

Words that's just not the case, everyone wants their baby to be " normal" and it's really really common to just to verbalise anxieties about babies in the same way old ladies are known to not present breast cancers to doctors etc

" if no one says anything then it can't possibly be true" basically.

If she comes from a nursing background, surely she must recognise the signs of possible Down's Syndrome?

Sorry to throw a spanner into the works, but if this is the case, I imagine she's willfully ignoring it.

So I think a gentle voice of concerns and then she can choose what to do with that is up to her. Lets hope I don't lose a great friend. Although we parent differently she really has always been there for me. I would hate to lose that.

I agree totally with Worra, I would lose all respect for a friend like this. Being an numpty on your own behalf is one thing but putting a child in danger for some half assed notions about medicine is another. It amounts to neglect in my eyes.

I know you said contacting the HV behind her back is harsh but who else is going to stand up for the poor child?

It really pisses me off when people benefit from others being vaccinated but don't afford the same consideration to others.

Regarding DS if the child had a severe heart problem it would be apparent in its skin colour and its breathing. It wouldn't have the energy to feed. The child's limbs would be floppy too, without the usual kick that another child might have.

With regard to her temperature and mottled skin alone, the baby should have medical help. If her mother is too stupid (for that's what it is) not to see that then I think you need to tell her you will be informing her GP.

It's disgraceful that she's not getting regular check ups for her baby, whether or not the baby has DS.

Could you avoid mentioning DS but say that in your medical opinion a few of her baby's characteristics can be associated with heart problems and suggest that it could be worth getting that specifically checked out? It might seem less intrusive to her, possibly.

Thanks Casey. I thought that too. Doing a roundabout way of saying you really should get her checked out. The words Downs Syndrome do seem full on!

Yes, what Twitchy said. Don't mention DS by name; you may well be completely wrong. Focus on what you can see is clearly wrong with the baby.

if you were my friend and you said this to me about my baby, i wouldn't be angry/upset with you at all

i would know that you were speaking out of concern, and i would be grateful that i had such a friend

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. It's hard but there will be a visit tomorrow. I will mention the things that worry me without saying the DS word hopefully. Fingers crossed. I will sleep on this and let you know tomorrow how it goes.

Is it just facial features?

I'm thinking maybe you could 'notice' the single hand crease (if baby has it) and know it can be associated with congenital heart disease and ask her to get baby checked because you are worried.

Hi, the mottled skin and difficulty in regulating temperature could still fall within the spectrum of 'normal' as could some of the facial features you describe.
But when you start to add all these different features together, I can see why you have concerns.

I've had similar dilemma's over the years when I have spotted SN (particularly ASD) in the children of friends, family and acquaintances and it is a difficult situation to be in so I understand how you must be feeling.

With my very close friend and my sister I did wait until she raised concerns with me before I gave my own, very 'carefully worded observations'

If the baby had a heart defect, would it not be fairly obvious? Breathing, colouring, repeated cough/cold/infection?

Jcbmgb, I did observe the baby having an odd breathing pattern. Definite recession and tracheal tug but it is episodic. The baby also had two pairs of trousers on and three top layers, but peripheries were very cold. I should have questioned this.

Well yes that does sound extremely concerning, what a dilemma for you :-(

Does your friend have a medical background? Does she respect your opinion?
I'm presuming that she is well aware of your medical training?

What does your gut/heart/instincts tell you to

Gut says to say something. Heart says it could go awfully wrong if I'm not right :(

I would hope she respects my years of training in paediatrics but who knows!