to think that child benefit cuts are

[mumsfretter]

understandable even though we personally lose as a family, again! However, I resent people who are much much richer than us getting winter fuel allowance still.

Aibu that the two benefits should have been cut together on the same basis or not at all.

welfare state is the only humane option

and is the only thing that makes sense economically; it is total false economy to cut benefits

and IMO you have to be a bit thick not to be able to work that out

pinkie you have no children (sorry, being PG doesnt count in this debate!), you dont have any idea how hard life with kids is even when you have a loving and supportive partner. Trust me when I say that you cant imagine the horror that it can be when you suddenly find yourself alone, financially fucked over and reliant on the state to survive. I couldnt have imagined it before it happened to me.

You really dont know what you are talking about. As I said, come back in 5 years, with your now unborn child approaching school years and possibly a toddler in tow too, and then answer how you will cope if your DH decides to do a disappearing act.

Supportive family or not, you will find that your attitude is totally different.

Bogey - my parents don't view their grand children and soon to arrive one as a 'problem' what sort of grandparent would??You seem very much of the opinion 'it happened to me so it can happen to you' I like to think positively and I know whole heartedly whatever happens between me and dp in the future he will always support and care for his child, his dad left at 10 so he wants to be there for his.

Procrastinator - I can have empathy but I think Bogey is going the wrong way about getting it ie snipy comments that me and dp don't have kids yet (our choice) and both work etc and taking offence to pretty much every comment

pinkie Why dont you go and have a read of the Relationships forum? I think that perhaps it will help you see just how hard the situations that I and others have described can be. And that they cant always be resolved in 6 months.

I used to be smug too :(

dp in the future he will always support and care for his child, his dad left at 10 so he wants to be there for his - yes mine was exactly the same - I was safe in the knowledge that he would never ever leave me and our children because he just would not put his kids through that ...

life can't always be controlled

of course it can happen to anyone

You dont know anything "wholeheartedly" about the future.

You know what you know now, and base your decisions on that, as did we all. Things change, people change. Why are you finding that so hard to accept?!

And by "problem" I was referring to the fact that you would not rely on the state to help you out, but expect your parents to do it. Hardly fair to assume that they will give up their....jobs? retirement? whatever, to give you free childcare because you are too good or proud to claim benefits to which you and your child/ren would be entitled.

This thread makes me really sad. All I can say pinkie is that once you become a mother I hope your attitude changes.
It will have to really. Chocolate box lifestyles don't exist in this society and it's because of people as judgy as you that I cannot accept being a single mother most days.
Still I should have got my child adopted in your world when my partner decided to leave us. Because of judgemental people.

Like I said, I hope your attitude changes when you become a mother it will have to really.
It's a good job there are support networks out there for single parents where people aren't judgemental because those people have moved with the times.
I've paid my taxes, I've worked. I will work again. I need a little helping hand at the moment. My CB goes towards providing me and my DD with a step towards getting back on track. But I shouldn't feel the need to explain myself to you.
Ive no more to say.

Bogey - I'm not smug at all and I'm baffled why you've already assumed dp will up and leave? Not all men are the same. My first one was physically abusive but I got over it and moved on. I don't believe for a second having children is easy but to say that I don't deserve an opinion because my baby isn't here yet is very narrow minded

I'd be happy with CB cuts if what we lose would be given to those who are struggling already. I don't believe cuts generate any particular benefit to the economy, frankly.

my friends husband dies of cancer when their child was 16 weeks old, my other friends wife dies of cancer when their child was 6 ...Pinkie you have no idea what is around the corner

I hope to god you never ever have to experience the shock and pain of the man you love with all your heart walking out of your life with no warning

died not dies.

Bogey - my parents work shifts, is that ok? I wouldn't expect anything of them they adore their grandchild and can't get enough of her and being their daughter they're always there for me as parents should be, why can't you accept that not everyman is like you ex? Yes ppl change, I've known dp since we were 7 and he's been desperate to be a dad for a long time

Pickles - where have I judged single mums (and dads) I work with plenty of them

Say's it all really doesn't it, you are not a mother yet pinkie !
When you become a mother i'm sure you will think differently.

I havent assumed that he will up and leave, but you are assuming that your life will always be this perfect, and thats what I thought once too. I was smug, safe and happy.

You are assuming that life wont change, that what he says now will still be true in a year, 5 years, 10 years. That what you feel for him will be the same in a year or 5 or 10. You are assuming that should the worst happen, you will go out there and get yourself a job (thereby assuming that there is a job available for you) and assuming your parents will be able and willing to take care of your child while you do it. You are assuming good health on your and his part, and on the part of your child.

Life happens while we are not looking, and one day you may well wake up and find that the worst has happened in one way or another. You may find yourself a single mother, sacked, ill, disabled, being a carer to your parents, your husband, your child. All of these things happen to people throughout the world, every single day.

My point is that you just dont know and to say that no one should be allowed to rely on the welfare state just because, right now, YOU dont need it is very short sighted.

I knew a girl who you sound a lot like, pinkie

She was smug, self centred and holier than thou - then her dh left her for a 20 year old.

Seriously, would you hold the same views if this was you? Have a bit of compassion. Jeez, you don't even have any dc yet!

Bogey - my parents work shifts, is that ok?

ermm...not if you are expecting them to help so you can go to work, no!

Gordy - I'm sorry to hear about your friends that's awful, I can't imagine going through that

You're right no-one knows what's next for us but does that mean we should all live our lives half full or be forever cautious incase the worse happens? I prefer to be positive and live in the moment, if he left I'd be devastated but I'm a survivor I always have been

Agree with Bogey in that you should never say never. I worked FT since graduating from uni, met ex-DP and was with him for four years. I was 33 when, after three years together, living together and being engaged, we planned to have a baby. When I was four months pregnant with DS he fucked off with another woman without so much as a backwards glance. I was left to pay the huge mortgage, bills etc on my own as well as stuff for the baby. He didn't contribute a penny, in fact he left me with debts to pay. He chose not to bother with DS and has never seen him (he's now 6). He's avoided paying the CSA, including leaving his job on purpose so he didn't have to pay.

I, meanwhile, went back to work FT when DS was just under 6 months old. But - and here's the killer - even working full time I was still entitled to benefits. I claimed WTCs, TCs and CB because if I hadn't we'd have starved.

I would never have thought it would happen to me, a smart, educated, working woman, but here I am six years later, a single working parent claiming benefits. All couples would do well to bear in mind that they are only divorce, death, domestic violence, adultery, abandonment etc away from being a single parent themselves.

yes so am I - I have survived worse - I now work and support my 3 children but I could not do that without tax credits and CB because I would be unable to cover childcare and pay our mortgage

I NEED state support NOW - i wont always and I didn't for the past 25 years ...I am not ashamed of that

I could 'afford' my children when I had them - I can't give them back so I do my best - yet peole judge you for it

Bogeyface - I'm actually loling that you think my parents wouldn't shouldn't want to take care of their grandchild should me and dp separate?

They have good jobs no mortgage (should they feel bad for that?) and given the chance would adopt them, they'd rather help out and ensure our child had a good life than watch us struggle

I can assure you pinkie during my long journey through dark days if I met anyone like you it would have set me back hugely

OMg that is hysterical :o:o:o Again, I ask you to come back in 5 years!

AIBU to think that my parents should want to take care of my DC so I can go back to work?

You would be shot down in flames, you really would! You cant expect that! They have their own lives too you know! I am sure that they would love to have your child sometimes, but not all day every day just because you are too good for income support. That level of entitlement will win you no friends, I promise you.

Tragedies happen, as do affairs and redundancy, so you are exempt from them then pinkie??

Your parents won't be around for ever, not only that i assume they are of an age they won't want to be babysitting all day considering you are in your 30s?

Say your parents & your partner were not around, who would you rely on if you were made redundant? The state thats who!!!

If you are so against us poor people recieving cb, why do you think using the nhs is acceptable considering you can quite clearly afford your antenatal care yourself?

You dont see it do you?

You talk about people standing on their own two feet but your plan involved relying very heavily on 2 people who, at that point in their lives, may not want or be able to look after your child. How on earth is that better than claiming benefits for a while?!