To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

I am very late to this thread, but I've only had to get to page 2 to say that softlysoftly and math have said all that needs to be said on the matter.

Wow. so after everyone claiming it wasn't an "Islamic" problem we see many people within the Muslim community dealing with it as if it is..... well I never.

what i have admitted is there are issues within the muslim community. obviously it is not perfect.

what I am denying is that honour killing is from Islam or is due to teachings from Islam, and I have said it is common within all religions in the cultures that commit these acts.

It has been suggested that the Muslim community do something about this by speaking out,

I have suggested that they do and provided evidence to support this, and I have demonstrated why the mainstream Muslim community speaking out will not effect the communities and cultures which have muslims within them that commit these acts.

I am willing to speak out against any injustices, I have said I admit that grooming takes place by Muslim men, I have said on other threads I have personal experience of this as a teenager and have seen it occur, I am aware of how to tackle the perceptions behind this.

I have also said there is domestic violence within the Muslim community and I support organisations which help those affected, and I have provided platforms for them to interact within the community.

I am looking for a way to speak out against honour killings irl, as been suggested should be done.

People have put forward their ideas how this could be done, and I have added information they may not be aware of.

Did you know we are not allowed to talk about politics in mosques? Mosques ban controversial subjects from being discussed out of fear.

These discussions are done elsewhere.

So with the added information I have given about the ways mosques work, how imams act just as leaders for prayers and most dont give relevant sermons, and how mosques are unfortunately ethnically based and run by the patriarchy within the community they serve, has anyone got any other suggestions?

it would be the same in a hindu temple in a community in which these problems occur, or a gudwara.

Like I said in the beginning it is not about religion.

There is an argument that it is about the patriarchy, which exists in all cultures.

"Child abuse isn't sanctioned by the Bible but the Catholic church shouldn't wash its hands."

I agree.

Fascinating that you can give this example and still think honor killings are part of Islam although they are not sanctioned by the Quran.

Child abuse isn't part of Christianity. Similarly, honor killings are not part of Islam. If you can understand one, you should be able to understand the other.

"We all know it's not in the Qran. We've said it many, boringly many times.... For the one hundred millionth time - we know."

Yeah, well, then stop saying things like "It is not just "culture". It's culture informed by religious belief" re honor killings.

Hopefully this is a clickable link

Religion such as Islam prop up the patriarchy, so I'm still seeing roots in religion.

I tend to agree that this is not about religion per se. Whilst some of the cultures where honour killings are found are predominantly Muslim, there are other Muslim countries where they are not an issue at all.

Its much more to do with the underlying patriachial culture often where women are seen as owned by the male etc.

A previous poster posted about gender gaps in Muslim certain countries and one of the poorly rated countries was my DH's country Algeria. The status of women in Algeria is not determined by Islam. Women have good access to education. The problems women face are often down to the corruption in the society and the prominent role played by the male dominated army. Health care is poor because the money and medicines destined for the hospitals never quite makes it there. Unemployment is a huge issue for men and women because money that should be invested in local industry rather than showpiece infrastructure projects never quite makes it there. Most young men get a couple of years in the army getting paid to stand in the ever increasing number of military checkpoints etc. The country went through nearly a decade of rumbling civil war in the 1990's which still causes divisions today not to mention the presences of Al Qaida in the Islamic Magreb. None of these problems are down to religion but rather widespread corruption and political problems.

Its far to simplistic to just point the finger at any one religion.

how does religion prop up the patriarchy more then for example capitalism or democracy?

the same way honour killings occur within all religions in a common culture,
the patriarchy exists within all systems in this world.

Indira Gandhi was Muslim.

Could class also be playing a part, alongside education, economics, culture and religion?

I stopped watching the video when she goes pakistani muslims and muslims in general commit the honour killings in the west.

anyway what was the point of the video? she says hindus commit as manyhonour killings but they only do it in india....

and wth is sun news?

Posie - re "Cote. NEVER lived in the UK"

You are like a bone with that, aren't you

Not that it is in any way relevant to a discussion of honor killings and Islam, but I have family in the UK and a secondary family home of our own there which we visit regularly. We were last there over half-term two weeks ago. I don't care to give too many personal details to a hostile stranger on a public forum, but suffice it to say that I spend quite a lot of time there and I am quite familiar with the UK, its inhabitants & issues.

I realise that you are not from a generation or segment of society where this sort of multi-cultural cross-border lifestyle is common (or possibly even comprehensible) so "never formally lived in the UK" equates "ignorant about the UK" in your mind but rest assured that at least in my case, it doesn't. HTH

the bengali prime minister is a muslim isnt it? and a woman?

Indira Gandhi was a muslim?! Since when?!

"
I realise that you are not from a generation or segment of society where this sort of multi-cultural cross-border lifestyle is common (or possibly even comprehensible)"
I think this is a good point because communities dont tend to be solely muslim or solely hindu or whatever, yeah men might go to mosque on fridays, women might go to islamic circles, but that is only part of our community and our social circles. women study, work, volunteer, go to childrens centres, kids schools, pta and would consider themselves as much part of those communities as muslim based ones.

"how does religion prop up the patriarchy more then for example capitalism or democracy?"

Interesting question but of course you know the answer to that: By insisting that religious "management" are all men (priests, imams - although I know there are exceptions), pointing the finger at women for evil/temptation (Adam & Eve's fall from heaven, fundamental Muslims' insistence on covering & segregating women), saying that women's say is worth only a half of a man's etc.

Could class also be playing a part, alongside education, economics, culture and religion?

Ofcourse. The lower the class, the less educated and less 'informed'.

But I don't agree with your interpretations and you know that.

Which "interpretation"? I thought I was talking about facts.

Its far to simplistic to just point the finger at any one religion.

Agree.

facts like how women manage plenty, plenty of events and circles organised by women,

covering and segregating is something that values and not debases women (imo)

in some matters a womans say is more then a mans etc

Yes, women can manage cake sales and stuff but can't be imams and they are not worth as much as witnesses as men - why? The implicit assumption is that they are somehow inferior to men. Lovable and precious creatures but still inferior to men.