To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

Nobody has said it is all Muslims. Nobody has said it is only Muslims. How many times.

Some Muslims do it believing their faith justifies it. Some senior members of the Muslim community support this belief. This means that although it is not all Muslims, or only Muslims, it needs to be addressed within the Muslim community, as "outsiders" will not be listened to (see Sili above).

It's the same, possibly, for many religions but Christianity and Islam were the main two on my syllabus!!

Even charities that deal with honour crimes, DV and forced marriage say that the wider community is complicit.

Front[aw -- Some people will never see eye to eye, but can't we agree that women have the right to education, to make decisions about their lives and marry whom they choose?

Unfortunately those are the hot button issues, the cornerstone of what defines one branch of Islam from the next, and the foundation of what constitutes the male Muslim identity for some is the extent to which they do not allow women to live as free human beings.

In the case of Afshan Azad, it was apparently ok for her Muslim family to allow her to portray a hindu witch in the HP series but when the issue wasn't related to making money for them she got the leash jerked.

If lack of education is the issue with societies that practice honor killings then where is the push for education? Where are the Muslims setting up schools for girls or schools where boys can learn something besides what the madrassas teach?

If lack of education is the issue, then who are the people issuing fatwas on the likes of Salman Rushdie?

I know a muslim who said 'people from XX? We don't even see them as human'

The culture that allows people to see others as non-human is one with a huge problem. Even if the people being seen as 'non-human' are pouring acid on their daughters or marching past Catholic ghettos singing The Sash my Father Wore.

Disclaimer - he is a barking loon who has said nasty things about loads of people.

Sadly he is not alone in his barking looniness.

This thread has been really quite depressing and frightening. I should have had a more realistic view. I did not expect denialism on such a scale.

I AGREE WITH POSIE

"Then society has questions to answer, we have to work out why men feel so entitled to control their partners or ex partners. This is not rocket science."

But there is something I don't get, the thing about communities dealing with honour killings.

My husband is pakistani, his whole family is here, I have many Pakistani friends etc, so how do we deal with the issue of honour killing? how do you suggest we "deal with the problem"? I wouldn't know where to start, neither would any of the Pakistanis I know, as we don't know anyone who would think it is ok to commit murder.

When it comes to grooming, I would know where to start, with talking to others about bringing up their boys respecting women, that non muslim women need to be respected just as much as muslim women, that dawah is through our actions etc,

Also I would want to say repeatedly posie has talked about women being stoned, Islamically the men get stoned too btw.

Tere is no khilafah, No Islamic state.

oh yeah, and who wants to hang out? you will have to put up with my "boisterous" 2 year old though!

Hey Nailik, fortunately there will be people in your community who may have the answer. Let's hope they're a little more opne than the Somali Forum, in Bristol, are about FGM as the panel of men seem to think it doesn't happen and so nothing to do. Integrate Bristol are amazing, started by a 14yr old girl who has had to deal with constant shunning and criticism for her work!

"Then society has questions to answer, we have to work out why men feel so entitled to control their partners or ex partners. This is not rocket science."

Yes!! I believe this is at the root of the problem and why some psychopathic men from such a culture feel also ENTITLED to murder - under the guise of an honour killing.

What makes this activity particularly evil is that the killing of a child or woman is justified as righteous! - when they use the word honour!!

Quite outrageous! And no, a parent who would do this - kill their child does not know anything about love.

Sometimes there are cases where brothers and uncles kill too. And mothers.

animation I agree with you, I really can't get my head around it that a person would kill their own child coz they worried about what people will say, peer pressure at the extreme or something.

In Arabia people used to bury their girls alive, Islam said we should stop this. A females right to life was preserved. There are Quran verses commanding to not kill your children.

Even without all that, why would you do it?

its not just men. mothers and mothers in law are often behind honour killings.

'WE' in the West cannot and will not understand their actions as they have been brought up in cultures where this, although not the 'norm' is seen quite often as right or justified.

How many of the posters here have had to physically bury the bodies of your own relatives, or seen dead bodies left in the street as you walk to work?

Life sometimes isn't as important as 'honour' in these places. Because life is so fragile and family honour so strong??

I suspect it is not the 'norm' in places this happens either.

" Life sometimes isn't as important as 'honour' in these places. Because life is so fragile and family honour so strong??"

Peterpan -Wow! THIS is what I want to understand!!!

"Life sometimes isn't as important as 'honour' in these places."

Very true. However it still doesn't mean normal people kill their children who behave in a way that embarrass the family. There are very few honor killings even in countries with uniform Muslim populations and that is why Normal Parents Don't Kill Their Babies whatever they do.

"Because life is so fragile and family honour so strong??"

Nothing to do with life's fragility, everything to do with the importance of one's honour and dignity. It is hard to explain and possibly impossible to comprehend for someone from another culture, like the mentality of Japanese kamikazes and other soldiers who commit harakiri (seppuku) rather than surrender to the enemy.

"Christians do not worship beings besides God. Even Catholics, who believe that there are saints, etc., do not worship them."

Kneeling in front of their paintings/statues and praying to them looks like worship from where I sit. If you want to give it some other name, I don't particularly care.

The point was that apparently God didn't appreciate the competition from these persons and told Mohammad that nobody was to draw or make a likeness of him or anyone else around him, so that these people could not then be made into holy figures to kneel in front of and pray to.

God doesn't want to share the love, it seems

You dont pray to them as a deity... Its a bit like putting your request for a pay rise into your bosses depty for him to ask on your behalf.

Hey......never said it was right.

But have you guys seen dead bodies in the street? Heard women being beaten to death in their tuckles (mud hut) at night while you try and sleep.......or seen donkeys beaten by boys in the road as they wouldn't get up and carry their loads any more???

Where ive been to that's a normal occurrence.....try to understand the culture first.....then slag it off.

Peterpan - have you experienced this?