To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

And if it's nothing to do with Muslim culture why have Imams felt the need to speak out against it? And Muslim culture is a culture that contains Muslims, we have a few in my city.

If someone went around killing, saying 'I done it cuz I have red hair, and thats's the culture of the redheads' I'd be pretty pissed and say something about it too.

I suppose if someone says 'I killed by daughter because she shamed the family by not being a good muslim girl' then any mullah would jump us and say 'thats a load of rubbish, anyone else spouting thay will definately go to hell'.

[[http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/reape-abortion-fight-womens-rights-turkey Then you'll know all about this "honour" case too]

Evil acts have been carried out within the Catholic church against children. By people who profess the Catholic faith. Is this an issue for Catholics to address? Or can they wash their hands of it: saying "This is not in the Bible: it has nothing to do with us; anyone who says so is a bigot?"

This is like morality for dummies.

Going back to Turkey, this utopia of peace wasn't that the country where a women murdered her rapist (repeatedly raped her at gunpoint) because noone took her seriously? And where honour crimes and crimes against women are suppressed and secretive?

Is that the case I failed to link Posie?

If a fundamentalist Christian murders a doctor and justifies it with Biblical talk of the sanctity of life: can the evangelical community deny it? Is it coincidence? Can it wash it hands of the problem and call anyone a bigot who makes a connection -- and wants it addressed by the leaders of that community?

Sili, have just looked back and noticed you totally ignored the question, totally ignored the explanation, refused once again to address the issue.

"Wiki says 1.6 billion as of 2009. So what % is 5000 of 1.6billion?! A very very very small number. "

Apologists.

its not islam... Honour killings occur in Greece, Sicily, Corsica, parts of Spain, and even in Brittany Normandy, Not to mention Eastern Europe Russian Federation And Central/South American States Oh and Sub Saharan Africa... well Just about everywhere.

I'm totally with you Brycie. You've conducted yourself in a very reasonable manner even when Cote, FRued and the other one have been arrogant and rude, either by 'funny post' or 'okay now I'm listening' type posts.

I think they're super rude because they're wrong.

Thanks Posie. You too. I think that's why they've resorted to it too: and quite frankly don't even seem to take it seriously with all the and the so what, and the shrugging off.

The OP asked about how it happens in Islamic countries considering Islam is peaceful, I think the direct and short answer is honour killings take place in places and communities where women are not valued. Many "Islamic" Countries are really shit places to be a women.

Read this

Religion not culture.

cresent. Many Imams, thank goodness, actually see it as their responsiblity if it happens within their community. I know that Islam condemns such things, unless you live in Jordan, but I can't help thinking the way culture is set up around religion makes Religion accountable. It's no coincidence that Islam is one of the larger religions in cultures where women are not valued, it seems that some of the verses lend themselves to this thinking. I know that Muhammed did great things for women that were light years ahead of his time but because the Quran is the word of God some more out dated messages still get through.

So do you all think it's ok for the Catholic and evangelical communities to wash their hands of the terrible acts carried out under their aegis?

Crescent: I think you are forgetting that the Christian "community" (no doubt it will be denied that there is any such thing) has dealt with these Biblical edicts. It has faced up to this kind of thing; it's addressed it; often very painfully, often with much angry internal discourse. But it hasn't shrunk from it. It doesn't pretend there's no connection or that it can wash its hands of the problems thrown up by such Biblical passages.

That's the difference. You can only address it if you acknowledge it in the first place; you refuse to acknowledge it; therefore you will not address it.

As Posy says, many Muslim leaders think differently to you, and I respect them for it.

Crescent: are you going to respond, or are you going to ignore some more?

I think I should just accept that there will be no response. There's no point in asking very central questions, very many times, when they are repeatedly ignored. I suppose the fact that they have been so robustly ignored really does give me the answer.

Asking you any more times will no doubt find me accused of haranguing. Yet all I want, have wanted for many pages, is an answer to these very central questions.

I can see none will be forthcoming. Instead there'll be maybe more talk about face covering or bigotry or I'm so knowledgable or the Crusades or...goodness knows what.

There are apologists on this thread and that's shameful.

No, I do not think Catholics should wash their hands off what has happened to children in care of the catholic priests. But are we talking about Muslim imams killing for honour?!

Are we then saying that Catholics abuse their children?! I am sure not all Catholics do.

This is like comparing apples to oranges.

You do not know anything about the religion, or the cultures that you talk about. You refuse to even set foot in moderate countries like Dubai.
A lot of people are saying this is cultural and not religious, you are still refusing to listen.
I have better things to do and debate with you all day long. This discussion just has not moved on.

I've mentioned it once or twice, as has Brycie.

Freudian don't be so insulting. It's childish.

What is your response to the Catholic question?

"Yet again i will repeat there is no support for honour killings"

Did you read the link? Posy has talked about Jordan - is she making that up?

Silibili: if Catholics cannot wash their hands of child abuse; and evangelical Christians cannot wash their hands of fundamentalist murder; how can Muslims wash their hands of honour kiling? No one is saying that all Catholics abuse children; no one is saying that all Muslims murder family members. OBVIOUSLY.

Crescent: copy and paste an example of bigotry or withdrawn your insult. You haven't responded because you can't - it doesn't suit your set of beliefs - you've no answer at all.

brycie are you by any chance beech? Another poster who is just like you. Keeps going at things in the same way and thinks this is the way to open up debate. To have a dialogue but the views come out all bigoted?!

I'm guessing that you don't really know what bigot means, any of you as using it makes you sound pretty thick.

Honour killings require a devaluing of women, some Islamic verses lend themselves to apologise for women to be beaten and stoned and yet you still assert that there is no link. Without being pretty thick I can't see how you can do that.

The Islamic council of Jordan even says honour killings are Islamic.