To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

I am anti Islam not individual Muslims, but if it suits you to put that in some sort of compartment you carry on.

Yes of course it's a barrier. Apart from anything else, it's supposed to be a barrier, and apart from anything else, if you aren't a Muslim, it's basically a mask.

Ridiculous.

Posy, there are very positive things to say about Islam. It's just that whenever you say anything negative about activities carried out in its name you get this huge Oh there's nothing wrong with Islam and anything that's done in its name isn't really anything to do with Islam at all.

Uh huh.

And why should I know lots of Muslims? I'm not a Muslim, the human condition means that we don't often mix with people unlike ourselves, unless forced by circumstance. That doesn't mean I can't comment upon what may or may not be happening in my part of the world, the rise of hidden women (draped in black), the number of men hanging about on the streets making me feel uncomfortable, I am a citizen of this country and have a vested interest in what happens here.

I also object to lap dancing and sex work, I don't know any lap dancers or prostitutes should I not have an opinion on them either?

Brycie - The problem people have with your term "Islamic country" is that it's not clear if you mean "Muslim country" (i.e. a place where most of the population is Muslim) or "Islamic government" (i.e. a place where system of government is based on the Quran & Hadith).

I don't feel like reading some article you have Googled, for the simple reason that I very much doubt that it will enhance my formal education on the history of the Ottoman Empire. If you want to say something, do please just say it.

"I think I mention two others. "

Oooh two real live Muslim acquaintances! Your knowledge on Islam must be complete!

Most of the positive things to say about Islam are in the past, as is much of the religion.

I don't think anyone is really arguing that the veil isn't a barrier. Of course, it is.

Goth must be trying to say that it doesn't prevent her from expressing herself or from being understood.

posie, who gave you history lessons!?

Interesting thread.

It's not my term "Islamic country" and you are being precious to the point of pointlessness. Most people would understand it to mean a country with a civil code largely informed by Islam. It's a shorthand. Ok? Like this is a Christian country. Not that many Christians but a civil code informed Christianity. Now THAT is not difficult to understand.

You don't want to read it because you'll find out you were probably wrong in saying the Ottomans weren't moderate!!!!!!! as if I was stupid. You've seen the credentials of the guy. It's an alternative view. If you're afraid of an alternative view then don't read it. Whatever.

Why are you even doing this? If I saw a thread on fundamentalist Christians murdering doctors who carry out abortions I wouldn't wade in and start saying yes but Muslims carried out the 9-11 attacks. I'd think, yes that's bloody awful, I don't approve or condone, I might even post that I think it's abominable or mainly I'd steer clear. There's no defence, nothing to be said that can justify it, least of all attacks on the history of other religions.

What is this oversensitivity you have?

Give it a rest, Posie. You are like an anti-American who has never been there, indoctrinated by Saudis who hate America.

posie, for a beautiful Islam, you need to visit Egypt, Dubai, Qatar, Malaysia, Indonesia...

Your statement that there is nothing good about it anymore can be said of most religions.

"I don't wearing a hijab to be a barrier, that you do, says a lot about yourself. "

Cote sees it as a barrier too Goth. What does that say about her.

South east Asian countries like Malasia and Indonesia are seeing a creeping increase of Sharia. Even in Singapore, resolutely secular, has seen education battles over schoolgirls and the hijab. Not all beautiful.

Beautiful Islam in Egypt incorporates into law the edict that a woman's testimony in court is worth half that of a man.

In my opinion, honour and everything bad to go with it happen mainly where the level of education is low.

What like the UK.

What like Osama bin Laden was poor and badly educated.

It was not do long ago the suffragettes were fighting for our vote here. Change takes time. Education is the key.
It was not so long ago that black people in America had no voice. Look at it today.

Actually the level of education is pretty low here. But not that low.

And in the meantime we can condemn and not appease it and not try to find excuses and wail "but look at the Crusades".

"Most people would understand it to mean a country with a civil code largely informed by Islam"

How many of those are there?

And were you just talking about those few countries? Or were your talking about countries with Muslims majorities?

Like the thread title - it's wrong because honor killings happen in many Muslim countries that are not Islamic.

"you were probably wrong in saying the Ottomans weren't moderate!!!!!!! as if I was stupid."

You are probably not stupid, just a bit ignorant. Which is fine. I wouldn't expect you to know anything about the Ottoman Empire.

I can think of quite a few aspects of the Ottoman Empire that were definitely not "moderate" in any modern sense of the word.

"If I saw a thread on fundamentalist Christians murdering doctors who carry out abortions I wouldn't wade in and start saying yes but Muslims carried out the 9-11 attacks."

You might, if on that thread, some idiot said "Christianity is a horrible religion, because Christians murder abortion doctors". You could point out that the same could be said of Islam, because some Muslims have carried out the 9/11 attacks. This would be your way of showing the idiocy of generalising the terrible acts of a fringe minority to an entire religion.

"There's no defence, nothing to be said that can justify it"

Assuming that you are still talking about honor killings, WHO do you think is justifying or defending them? Definitely not me.

"What is this oversensitivity you have?"

What "oversensitivity"?

I know this stuff, you don't. I'm descended from Ottomans and I have studied the Ottoman Empire for years, you are trying to teach me about them, based on a few minutes of Googling.

Seriously. Get a grip, maybe.

Obl exploited the poor by brainwashing them.

Before I post, I'll just list my credentials - am white British, married to Turkish muslim; lived in Turkey with him and dc for nine years.

I don't think the honour killings have much at all to do with Islam/religion, but are cultural - 'gossip' is rife, certainly in Turkey, and people don't want to be gossiped about - in fact, they will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid it, including, in some cases, killing their own family members. It is very, very important to them to be seen as fine upstanding citizens, and they round on any member of their family that is seen to let them down in that respect.

I also think the OP is indeed aligning honour killings with Islam by first stating that 'so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries' and then stating that 'Islam preaches peace'. Had the OP written, for example, 'why do so many burglaries happen in Christian countries when the Bible says thou shalt not steal', we'd all have posted immediately to say that it had nothing to do with our religion and everything to do with our greedy little society.

So the answer to the OP's question is that nobody in those countries thinks much about what their religion teaches them when they commit an honour killing. All they are thinking about is themselves and their position in whatever society, village, town or whatever that they live in.

Omg, who says the Ottoman Empire was peaceful!!! Here's. really. Not even worth arguing in this as it is do wrong!!!!

Actually I was talking about Christian fundamentalists killing doctors who carry out terminations - quite obviously from the context. It's comparable to honour killing - carried out in the name of religion - against the central thrust of the religion, utterly damnable. That might help you a little though I'm rather suprised you didn't get it the first time.

What do you mean, how many of those? I don't know, I haven't counted. Why does the number matter? Are you disputing the definition? Why do you want me to count them? I told you what I was talking about - why are you asking me again?

Not as ignorant as someone who refuses to read an alternative view. Afraid?

The thread title didn't say that - it said Islam is a religion of peace so why do they do this. It's at the top of every page.

I explained the oversensitivity. I don't feel the need to justify Christian fundamentalism with reference to historical "Islamic" horrors. I condemn murderous acts carried out in its name without talking about 9-11. Now do you understand.

I also think that the British like to label everything and segregate it. So for example, Sikhs are Indian. When socks come up on tv, their religion is mentioned and not country. When Hindus are mentioned, they become Asian. Which of course they are, but if you are showing that A high %of educates people are from Hindus, say Hindus. Don't say Asians. Make better distinctions.
There are more Muslims in India them here are in Pakistan. However, they won't say Indian. They will say Indian Muslim or Muslim. See what I mean?! Divide and rule.