To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

Brycie - What is your last comment (to me) about? If it is about honor killings, of course we all condemn them. Surely that wasn't so hard to understand?

It's defenders of Islamic culture that brought up the history. Although there was no need to defend it on this thread (or at all really) - what this is about is honour killings happening here and now. I can't be bothered with quotation marks.

Ottomans were not "moderate". Yet they didn't care to spread the religion by force.

And pictures of people and animals doesn't make a place "moderate". Was that meant to be a joke?

Yes it is hard when the line goes : yes it's bad but Christians did bad things too. give them time they'll get over it

That's appeasement, I don't like it.

As a person who was fortunate to be born in the UK to parents without faith, I say as I see. I cannot see Islam as a religion of peace and Christianity is a joke. The two religions are the ones I come across most in my life and see Christianity as a bit happy clappy and Islam as very very rigid and frightening. When I see women in 2012 in the UK in Burkas and little girls in hijabs, groups of men hanging about the streets, Muslim men having called me a white slag and so on. What am I supposed to think? Christians don't have honour killings over here, that I've ever heard of, or practice FGM and whilst I accept that these things are not necessarily from Islam they are born out of a culture that takes it's guidance from Islam.

It was meant to be more light-hearted - modern Islamic art can be very tortured with heads slashed off sculptures in artistic frustration at not being allowed to depict human form.

"Islamic culture"? What is that?

There is Indian culture. There is Turkish culture. These are as distinct and separate as Mexican and Russian cultures.

There is no such thing as "Islamic culture".

"What am I supposed to think? "

You are supposed to think.

"not being allowed to depict human form"

Not true. Muslims don't depict Mohammad. They can depict whoever else they want.

Well I have and have come to my own conclusions.

Do you mean to be so rude and patronising?

And of course there's Islamic culture, it is culture that uses Islam as it's base.

Ottomans

for beginners

So oh oracle of Islam, as you apparently lived in a n Islamic country for two minutes, what do you think the problem of Islam is and why so many find it completely intolerable?

There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. "Islamic culture".

There is Islamic art, just like there is Christian art.

There is no Islamic culture, just like there is no Christian culture.

Culture is something that ethnic groups or nations share. It is not something shared by billions of people living all over the world, speaking different languages, with different histories and backgrounds.

"Not true. Muslims don't depict Mohammad. They can depict whoever else they want. "

You're getting mixed up between the religion and the culture. Like the modest dressing thing and the niqab. One is religion, one is culture (as you no doubt know - grandma's / egg sucking etc apologies for that)

There's a strong tradition in strands of Islamic arts/culture of not depicting the human form.

rude and patronising when you posie have told those that are Muslim on here what they think

There is Islam the religion and there is culture.like there are english Christians and there are japanese Christians culturally they are miles apart

Ho my Islamic arts/culture x posted with you.

This is a bit semantic. My first use of "culture" was about ways of living based on Islam; my second referred to Islamic arts. Hope that clears things up - I see now why you got confused.

Bit weird to say the niqab for example is not part of Islamic culture. It's Islamic and it's not required by the Qran. That makes it Islamic and cultural. Like arts inspired by Islam or frustrations arising from - not directed by the Qran but culturally associated with Islam.

FYI Posie, I have lived in a Muslim country for almost 30 years, not two seconds.

And Brycie, I studied the Ottoman Empire in school for many years. Trust me when I say that the "beginner" on this thread is not me.

Brycie - re "modern Islamic art can be very tortured with heads slashed off sculptures in artistic frustration at not being allowed to depict human form"

As you can see above, this is not about me being confused but you actually saying Muslim artists are not allowed to depict the human form. You didn't say it's "tradition and therefore part of culture", you said they are "not allowed".

And I pointed out that actually, Islam doesn't forbid the depiction of the human form.

I hope that is clearer for you now.

"Bit weird to say the niqab for example is not part of Islamic culture. It's Islamic and it's not required by the Qran. That makes it Islamic and cultural. "

That doesn't even make sense!

You say it yourself that niqab (veil) is not required in the Quran, and then go on to say that makes it "Islamic".

How on earth can you call something that is NOT in the Quran, which is NOT adopted by the vast majority of Muslim women in the world, is part of of "Islamic culture"?

By your incredibly ignorant and twisted "reasoning", FGM is also part of "Islamic culture" - it is not required by the Quran but done in some Muslim countries because it is part of their culture!

But they think they're not allowed to depict human form. That's the point. Otherwise they wouldn't produce that kind of art. They've been taught they're not allowed to depict human form - that's Islamic cultural teaching.

Not sure if you understood or "assimilated" the point about religion and culture?

No, Islam started out violent...not invaded, they were the invaders.

Cultures that are guided and laws made from Islam are, imo, Islamic cultures.

Why is it that some Muslims insist on aligning or separating from other Muslims when it suits?

Back to honour killings, what are Muslims doing to find the root cause within Islam?