To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

[Mooblies]

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

1. Honour Killing is absolutely NOT defended or encouraged in the Qur'an or Islamic teachings.

2. The point of my posts was not to defend Islam (I don't feel I need to), but critique the narrow viewpoint people were espousing about Muslims and Muslim majority countries.

If you're going to address me, I think you should at least engage with what I've actually written, not what you think I've written.

Why would a group of imams go to pains to correct wrong interpretations of the Koran unless someone had acted in the name of the Koran? In this case, the killing of four daughters and a first (bigamous) wife by the father of the girls, their brother and the second (bigamous) wife.

'Thirty-four imams belonging to the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada, including a handful of American members, signed the fatwa in an effort to counter misinterpretations of the Koran, they said...'

'...So if anybody is thinking that honour killing is allowed in Islam, or domestic violence is okay or misogyny is okay, we are saying no, you are dead wrong,? he said Saturday in announcing the measure.' - Syed Soharwardy, Imam.

Unless they were countering an opinion that was current in the Muslim community wrt killing female family members, family honour, the entitlement of men to beat their wives, etc., why speak in those terms?

"Honour Killing is absolutely NOT defended or encouraged in the Qur'an or Islamic teachings."

I thought that was the whole point of the question "why do so many happen in Islamic countries".

I wouldn't hold up Malaysia or Indonesia as beacons of women's empowerment. Did you mean to do that?

When killing one's child is because of shame, in ONE culture, then one must look at the culture.

The fact that it's cultural removes any spurious protection for oppression / removal of women's rights accorded by religious status. The nonsense of the niqab needs to be challenged.

You are ignoring the fact that these things are done in the name of religion. They may be cultural but it's the perpetrators who attach religious significance to it. Seriously stop defending it.

Crescent isn't defending it - and I haven't read it all - but isnt condemning it. It isn't helpful if someone says to me 'your brother is a twit' and I say 'well the man next door is a bigger idiot!'.

It is a cultural thing which cowers behind religion. Yes, there are places where the 'council' (male elders) can decree a 'religious' punishment to a crime (stoning, rape...). It happens and is done in the 'name' of religion. Other religions don't do this. In the UK punishment is done on behalf of the state and not on behalf of the CofE. Laws can be challenged and changed - this is more tricky if someone, desperate not to lose power, says 'God tells me I am 100% right and you can go to hell if you contradict me'.

I worked somehwere where we had to consult on Islamic law. We had a committee of about half a dozen learned men (sadly no women) on the laws of Islam (lecturer, mullah, lawyer...). They were each very different in culture, etiquette, race... They were all very polite, kind and shook my hand, took refreshents offered and spoke respectfully to everyone there. Would this happen in some other countries? Probably not. I have also worked in a place where certain people refused to shake hands, accept a glass of water touched by a non-believer or eat a biscuit from a plate (risk of contamination).

The interpretation of gods law by men is just bloody weird sometimes.

I would've thought it went without saying that myself and crescentmoon think honour killings are wrong.

But you've got Brycie who can't read, claiming we're defending them.

math saying no one condemn's them and then still not liking it when people not only condemn them, but disassociate those actions from the religion.

Then you've got "anecdotes" of the sort of behaviour I've never come across or heard about, I've never heard of Muslims refusing to share food with non-believers. Never.

This thread is bullshit. It's just an excuse to vent prejudices and view Muslims as a lower form of life and considering the west's huge fondness for killing Muslims, that gives me the creeps.

A religion that supports jihad against those that even draw a picture of Mohammed and defend the protests against drawings or films is never going to fit into the vision of a free world.

Really? Because there's an awful lot of yes - but people in western countries kill each other too.

Now that's a bullshit defence of honour killing.

It is NOT an excuse to vent prejudice - the thread title asks WHY is there "honour killing" in Islamic countries when Islam doesn't justify it.

That's the opposite of prejudice. But then, you see what you want to see.

Goth you have a weird scale of what gives you the creeps.

'view Muslims as a lower form of life and considering the west's huge fondness for killing Muslims,' oh pur-leeze.

Listen to yourself. Man kills man. Christians kill Muslims, other christians, aethiests... not necessarily in the name of Christ though. Muslim men orchestrated 911 in the name of religion - so do we mistrust all men, or muslims or all men with beards?

Why do people try to argue in such black or white terms? Its not religion - its what people do in it's name. And sadly it is making 'normal' people shout 'you're all terrorists/supressed/evil' and 'you're all slags/ homosexuals/addicts/evil' - all together now 'YOU ate going to hell, but we're not because God is on our side!'

This is from Britains. Who live side by side, work together, are educated together... This is the deviceiveness and wickedness that is created by 'the bad men'. Not god, allah, jehova...

some on here really need to read the bible if they want to keep quoting what the Koran says. Most Muslims recognise that whe the Koran came about life was very different they still practise their religion but see what was relevant then is not now. I have yet to meet a Muslim that has more than one wife (before Islam men coud have as many as they wished), I have yet to meet a Muslim who has had an arranged marriage unless they are from an Asian background (cultural) I have yet to meet a Muslim that supports honour killings.

if someone tells you they are catholic do you believe they support the church covering up abuse, support pro lifers attacking abortion clinics, are IRA members, do you believe that Christians believe the crusades was acceptable in the name of christianity

This thread really do show up the narrow mindness of how people perceive Muslims. No one on here is denying that there are problems but some can not seem to separate abuse that is done in the name of religion that the vast majority of muslims who are as alarmed and disgusted as we are. and the millions suffering because of other issues poverty, lack of healthcare and education, corrupt and cruel regimes that keep people down these are the real problems

This thread contrasts what the Qran says with what some Muslims do in its name. It is a cultural phenomenon and it's carried out in the name of religion. So you can't ignore the religion when you talk about it.

this thread is linking honour killings directly to Islam the religion and then going on to say that Islam the religion itself is woman hating.

No, this thread is not doing that. I think most posters have recognised that honour killings are cultural. However, some people can't help but also note that a lot of the cultures happen to have Islam as their religion.

No one has said that the religion itself is woman-hating. Some people however have noted that many Islamic nations, particularly fundamentalist ones that take a great deal of pride in their close following of the religion, are nations in which women are brutally oppressed. I refer you again to the gender gap statistics.

crescentmoon I fear you and others are in your defence of Islam simply mis-reading what posters are saying.

I think the issue is that Islam has had no 'reformation', no period where they have reflected and altered, unlike Christianity. Muslims take their own religion way too seriously and expect the rest of the world to do the same.

Jesus in comparison to Mohammed is a peaceful and non violent man, let's look at adultery Jesus talked of he who cast the first stone, Mohammed ordered the woman to be stoned to death.

With such a violent beginning it's no wonder few see Islam as a religion of peace.

Most religions by now are not so brittle and can take criticism, Islam has no period of enlightenment.

Have you spoke to every Muslim to gain that piece of knowledge? Obviously by your statement you have

I know muslims with arranged marriages. I also know a christian with one too.

It gets a little dull when people align themselves as part of a group unless part of that group is criticised and then they are separate. No accountability but enjoying the safety of numbers.

You can't rejoice in the rise of Islam but then say fundamentalism has nothing to do with me, it's too slippery.

I don't know any Christians sent to a country where they are married off, do you?