What's wrong with reward charts?

[crackcrackcrak]

There is a discussion page on Facebook (which it's high time I left I know) which is v pro attachment parenting etc. I don't always agree with everything but tonight they are bashing reward charts/stickers.
Tbf dd1 is only 3 so I haven't used them yet but I planned to and thought they were common thing to use for potty training or whatever.
Am I missing something? Are they a perceived evil after all?

What reasons are they giving on the page?

I'm not convinced they are all that useful - I brought up three kids without using them - but maybe others know different?

I find them a great tool to use.

Great idea...but never be tempted to rip off awarded stickers in anger!

Nothing wrong with them in my opinion. If they work to motivate your child then what anyone else thinks doesn't matter. Some people always feel the need to find something negative to say on everything.

I'm waiting for someone to answer my comment on the page - i shall report back

I assume its something about punitive discipline but could be wrong.

I'm perplexed though I just thought they were a tool - wont work with every kid/might not work at all etc but thought they were quite a neutral parenting choice?

If MN has taught me anything it is that there is no such thing as a neutral parenting choice

I think it very much depends on the child and how well they are used.

They can lead to children expecting to be rewarded for what should be normal behaviour and some children will do the minimum to get the reward but then stop when that has been achieved. (more older children though)

They work better on my son, my dd just isn't into stickers

My ds couldn't give a toss about stickers, so they wouldn't ever work for us. And I do think that although they may work on specific issues as a short term measure, they aren't generally a good tool as you then have to get out of rewarding expected behaviour

www.alfiekohn.org/books/pbr.htm

This is their source.

they didnt work form my ds either but if they provide some help for a short term issue such as toilet training and they seem to work then whats the harm. Can I add over-analysing to my earlier comment....?

The argument against them (and any reward based system, including praise) is that they teach children to do things for a reward, or for validation from others, rather than them learning to do it for the joy of it (esp when used in schools in reference to learning) or because they feel like it's a good thing to do for themselves.

Some extend this argument to say that it encourages children to rely on external sources for self esteem whereas it's more healthy to get your self esteem from within.

Also, if they're used on non-negotiable things (like brushing teeth, doing chores etc) you can get into a problem if the child sees it as a trade off or a "payment", ie, I can get pocket money, or I can sacrifice that pocket money to get out of doing the washing up. When you don't really want them to see that as a choice!

There have been studies done as well (on children and adults) which show that rewarding an action leads to less enthusiasm for that action (with or without a reward) rather than the opposite as you would expect.

I tried them a couple of times but always forgot to fill them in, they're very high maintenance!

Im to lazy to use them. I can't ever remember to put them on if we are out, blabla. I didn't like the fact I was rewarding them for things in my eyes they should be doing anyway including being good. Does seem to work well in dc school though.

Bertie - I can totally see the logic in your post - thank you- bit surely given that way of thinking its just a case of choosing carefully and sparingly what you use them for? If you even use them at all?

Looking back my mum used them with me but only once or twice - def to help me with maths I remember that well. I think sometimes I do want praise from others but not about everything - career stuff is c personal for example. Exp otoh needs constant praise for every aspect of his life and I have no idea if his parents used rewards.

I don't like them, not found it necessary to use one (yet!), but some of my friends use them and have found them useful.

I'm not organised enough to use a reward chart. All our stars and shit would end up strewn around the house.

My problem with not relying on external rewards argument is that we all do rely on external rewards. It's called capitalism.

I have no time for rearing children in a fantasy world when ultimately they have to live in this one.

never used one.

think they are crap.

attatchment / unconditional parented DD and never had a problem,

There is nothing wrong with praise, or even rewards to an extent. The issues (if you deem them as issues) come when that becomes something that is expected for everything and the child (or adult) begins to do things simply to please others and gain a reward rather than because it is something they want to do, or indeed understand the need to do.

I think they're a load of old toss and have yet to see one consistently and effectively used. Each to their own though

Bertie are you saying children shouldn't be praised?! (Not you, the argument you're explaining I mean) Because that seems really sad to me. I love whooping and clapping and smiling when DS (13mo) does something new or successfully. He responds so well, I love praising him.

What Sirzy said.

How would proponents of attachment parenting encourag children to do things they don;t want to or undertsand the (long-tem effects of) , like brush their teeth? i am curious .

Personally I intend to use them in moderation, if my DS is going through a phase. I'll let you know how it goes!