What's wrong with reward charts?

[crackcrackcrak]

There is a discussion page on Facebook (which it's high time I left I know) which is v pro attachment parenting etc. I don't always agree with everything but tonight they are bashing reward charts/stickers.
Tbf dd1 is only 3 so I haven't used them yet but I planned to and thought they were common thing to use for potty training or whatever.
Am I missing something? Are they a perceived evil after all?

And also what posterof a pombear said. I think people don;t understand that even having children is a choice made for us and not the exercise of free will. And when you get right down to it society works by people agreeing to do what they don;t want to for a reward (i.e. realtively quiet and trouble free existence)

So when our children accomplish something (a puzzle, drawing, today DS (13mo) handed me paper for me to put in the fire) we shouldn't praise them, smile, clap, say "yes! Well done!" we should just turn our backs on them, stone faced and ignore?

DSs face lights up when he sees me praising him, its really upsetting to think someone out there wants to condemn and remove such an important, cherished moments to me. I go to bed at night picturing hos face and the feeling of shared joy at his discoveries. It's why I'm a SAHM.

They're not very AP, and they won't like time out either.

A friend used sweets as a bribe/reward for potty training then her son had a meltdown when we were out because she didn't have any sweets in her bag when he went to the toilet.

I used stickers in desperation to potty train ds2 and it worked but had a very negative effect on ds1's behaviour.

My children brush their teeth because they want to and I make it fun. Failing that because I put my foot down and insist their teeth have to be brushed twice a day!

One of the reasons why I use stickers is because schools use them. It's not the best reason but it's also the reason why I let them watch certain programes that their friends watch so they know what's going on in the playground!

I love reward charts!!!! I still use them for my DD when she becomes a little tricky, I find it gives her something to aim for and she loves a sticker. The final reward is something like a book or cinema trip but whilst she is working her way through the chart the treats are like extra story at bedtime, DVD night with popcorn, make a cake....TBH she does these things anyway but she is the type of child that thrives when she is learning or working towards something. Loves showing her GP's her chart....

On the other hand my DS has never taken to them, hates stickers and rips them up. So I tell him at the end of the day what he has done really well or a situation where he has tried. He just prefers that way.

Horses for courses....

I think, Sceherezade (though I've probably got this wrong) that the idea is that rather than saying 'Well done!' you pick an aspect of the drawing and say, 'I like your use of the colour red. Why did you pick that colour?'. Or something. So that the child isn't encouraged to do things like that solely for the purpose of receiving praise, and you enter into a dialogue about what they've achieved.

I'm sort of paraphrasing the explanation that was given to me on here when I asked what Unconditional Parenting actually involved. It's not something I've chosen to do. Personally I'm of the 'Oh well done you!' school and DS seems to enjoy it

Someone who knows better than me will probably come along and correct that terrible explanation in a minute...

It sounds like its not the praise (after all I think "I like" = "welldone"?) but the dialogue?

Yes, but maybe not for a 13mo baby

Totally agree with bertie

Yes of course you can praise children. The trick is to use descriptive praise i.e. you went to the toilet all by yourself, that is fantastic! rather than "Good boy" which is a pretty meaningless phrase.

Descriptive praise gives the child the words for what has happened and why it's a positive, it gives them vocabulary and power to use those words to describe their own actions. Pretty soon they learn to recognise their own good behaviour and to praise themselves e.g. "I made my bed, I feel proud." and thereby dispense with the need for external sourced praise.

I've used them for short term things (toilet training, hand washing) then once my child was in the habit I just said they were so fantastic they didn't need it any more.
The rewards I used were all focused time activities though rather than a specific toy.
So if they had a full row of stickers, then we would bake cakes together. Or do a bug hunt or something. So the reward was a specific fun thing they liked to do.
Worked brilliantly for me. But all children are different.
I've got a few friends who swear by the naughty step. But that never worked for me

Ivor as I understand it, the "I like" is best removed as it makes it about you rather than them. "That's a beautiful red monster!" would be favourable to "I like your red monster!"

dys but I don;t understand, how can you enter into a dialogue if it is all about them only? UNless the aim of course is to get them to ask you what you think
I get the context specific praise though - so they don'y associate being "bad" or "good" with themselves but with their behaviour. IS that right?

What dysfunction said!

Been searching for the UP thread I'd asked on but it's disappeared into the ether. But that sounds about right

I'm struggling to put it into words but basically if you praise them in a way which makes it clear what they are being praised for they can feel proud of their own behaviour, if you just say well done then they may not illy understand what they have done.

So you might say "well done for doing a poo on the toilet" rather than just well done.

Ahhh whatever, I love nothing more than squeezing my baby in a tight little cuddle ball and telling him he's the most cleverest, beautiful most handsome little boy in the whole wide world and mummy loves him so so so much.

If that makes me a bad parent then buggerit.

(Side note: I had very severe PND. Being able to care about and love him is a recently developed thing for me, I intend to make the most of it).

rawshark You can say, "You chose your stories and are waiting in bed for story time. That's great, you are all ready for a lovely, snuggly story time."

This would be preferable to "Good girl, I like the way you got into bed to wait for me."

Does that help?

Scheherezade - we will have to stop doing that at some point or will be MILs from hell [hsmile]

My baby is never leaving me for any giddy raw he's living with his mummy for ever and ever and ever

I had a crappy childhood, so I fully intend to spoil him absolutely rotten.

Giddy? I meant hussy*

Scheherezade I don't think anyone would accuse you of being a bad parent. It is totally normal and desirable to love your child more than you ever imagined possible, and to shower them with kisses etc.

I think though there comes a point in their social development where parents can help or hinder. To tell a child, "You are the cleverest child in the world," is clearly not helpful when they are of average intelligence. So it's about finding the words to provide appropriate praise and encouragement while not turning your child into an entitled monster.

Hard eh!

I've also heard it's good to praise effort, rather than achievement. I think the idea is that "You worked really hard on that drawing" encourages them to continue working hard, whereas "Great drawing!" can lead to them feeling there's no point in doing something unless they'll be good at it. All a lot of psychobabble really .......

I think an argument against rewards charts is that they are manipulative, but I don't really get that, because I if you use them, manipulating is exactly what you're trying to do!

He was an entitled monster at 4mo, I've lost that battle, he's known as "his lordship" to most .

But I do understand what you are saying, and agree to an extent, myself and DP have said we want to praise behaviour not ability.

I mean effort, rather than behaviour

You're rewarding your child for something they should be doing naturally, just because they're obedient. Otherwise it almost gives them the choice whether to do it or not- only the parent should have that choice.

And what Sirzy said.

dys thank you. I think your example makes sense in that context. I am a bit [hshock] that people would not use that approach in the main otherwise having a conversation with a toddler is going to be hard. ALthough as an adult I must admit being asked to come up with opinions all the time is kind of tiring and I don't intend to hold all communication like that.

It was more how to discuss a painting without personal opinions coming into it that foxed me. And by never saying what I personally like I'm not sure that is best way to encourage toddler to take an interest in what other people think and feel

Luckily my approach that I use for grown-ups looks like it will have given me a good grounding for DS e.g. what sketchy wallpaper amazing wallpaper, are you pleased with it?

Thinking ahead slightly - when my DS does his exams (if we are still talking) we are having pre-result celebrations for hard work not per grade rewards

Some way off mind you (he's only 21 months!) so may be overthinking slightly