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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think boys really ARE different to girls and it's not just nurture?

296 replies

Shovelnotspade · 28/10/2012 13:21

I went into parenthood armed with a first degree in psychology (combined with philosophy) and the notion that until puberty, little boys and little girls are the same and any differences are simply nurture.

I have 3 boys, 4 including DH's son from his first marriage and to me, they're so different to girls I can't believe it!

My SIL came over with her 5 and 4 year old girls to play with my 3 and 2 year old boys - they live in the US so we don't see them often and hers say nicely and did crafting, played with my old dolls, and decorated biscuits. Mine did not stop shouting and running. At all. I wouldn't change them for the world and am used to having to think of them as having a LOT of energy and a short attention span but SIL looked amazed and offered me lots of largely pointless tips.

I hate generalisations (generally Grin) but in my experience, at this age, little boys need far more supervision!
AIBU?

OP posts:
MurderOfGoths · 29/10/2012 23:28

Possibly not popular, but I think you'd be right.

Brycie · 29/10/2012 23:30

I was amazed to find out there are people who believe all gender specific behaviour is learned. I think they've never heard of hormones.

exoticfruits · 29/10/2012 23:33

I wouldn't dare- I would be called insensitive at best. I do however think there is a difference - if you are the only female in a houseful of them you certainly feel it- and mine are kind, caring, concentrate, read books,played with kitchens etc when small.

MurderOfGoths · 29/10/2012 23:36

I agree, however I don't think the difference is inherent/biological

exoticfruits · 29/10/2012 23:41

I can tell the difference because now they have girlfriends it is like a breath of fresh air- suddenly people on my wave length! I don't have to explain things- they just know.

Brycie · 29/10/2012 23:42

Goths how can you think that? They are biologically different. Hormones affect behaviour.

exoticfruits · 29/10/2012 23:45

I think that everyone has to admit to a biological difference!

Brycie · 29/10/2012 23:48

Well the biological difference directs behaviour. So why is there even any theory that gender specific behaviour is all learned?

MurderOfGoths · 29/10/2012 23:53

I'm pretty certain most hormones appear in both genders, although in different levels. But even then those amounts aren't set in stone.

As far as I'm aware the only actual biological difference between male and female is the reproductive system. And even then it isn't a million miles apart, seeing as all embryos/foetuses start out exactly the same.

Brycie · 29/10/2012 23:56

There is plainly a lot more testosterone in men otherwise everyone on this forum would be thick-necked, firm jawed, very hairy mothers with prominent adam's apples.

MurderOfGoths · 29/10/2012 23:57

There's a fair bit of testosterone in me personally, thanks to PCOS.

Brycie · 29/10/2012 23:57

unless I'm the only one not.. memo to self - try to attend meet up

Brycie · 29/10/2012 23:58

Is PCOS not something that needs treatment.

MurderOfGoths · 30/10/2012 00:00

You can take the pill to minimise the effects according to my GP, but my point is the levels of testosterone can vary massively within women.

Inneedofbrandy · 30/10/2012 00:01

If there was no difference between girls and boys it would logically follow there is no difference between men and women which would follow on to transgendered. There is a difference between men and women so why n

5madthings · 30/10/2012 00:01

well if its not biological what is it?

i think they all do have different personalities, but my dd is now 22mths and has a developed a real LOVE of dolls, we had a toy doll and pushchair that were her brothers, but she plays with it all the time, plenty of other toys available and i sit and build bricks iwth her, or get the train track out and she still goes for the doll, i take her to toddler groups, LOADS of other toys and she goes straight for the toy dolls. i took her shopping the other day and we went round the toy section in a deparment store, i let her out of the pushchair to have a look, we walked all the way round and she wasnt too interested in the cars, the liked the cuddly toy section but when we got to the dolls her eyes litup! she clapped her hand and yelled 'baby dollies' she was soo excited! she is the sam ewith the argos catalogue, flicks through the pages to get to the dolls!

now my boys played with their doll but tbh they used the pushchair to transport blocks and toy cars, the doll didnt go in it much and if they did play with the doll they did it differently to my dd, she cuddles it and feeds it and lays it down and says night night and kisses it. i would have expected my boys to do this as they always had a younger siblings around and saw me with their siblings when they were babies, yet dd hasnt had that, she is my youngest and hasnt seen me hold a baby or a feed a baby, she has seen other mums do it at toddler group but thats about it. so where has she learnt this behaviour from?

i do treat her the same as my boys, she falls over and i tell her to 'jump up' and i play rough and tumble, i take her out to parks and let her climb and run about i certainly dont molly coddle her because she is a girl! if anything as she is my 5th i am more laid back and just let her get on with stuff, but hse does have a nurturing side to her, loves real babies as well and if for example i or her brothers hurt herself she runs up to us and gives us kisses, she seems to have more empathy than her brothers did at the same age.

so is that just her personality? or is some of it because she is a girl and women are more nurturing? no idea but its very interesting to watch after the four boys and ihave had a fun evening actually choosing her a toy doll and little pushchair for her birthday in december, the doll and pushchair we have was bought for ds1 (who is 13 so its rather old and battered) i am amazed at the choice of dolls etc, its a whole new world!

MurderOfGoths · 30/10/2012 00:01

Oh and as far as I'm aware it doesn't affect my behaviour/make me more masculine.

Beveridge · 30/10/2012 00:02

As a teacher, I am confused as to why current thinking is that 'traditional' teaching and learning methods (e.g. 'chalk and talk', written answers, rote learning etc.) is claimed to be the reasons boys are failing in education now, because the 'male' brain is different fron the 'female' brain. Surely these 'old' methods were exactly the ones being employed 40+ years ago when it was girls attainment that was lower?

Which blows the (frighteningly fashionable)notion of 'gender based learning' out of the water.

Inneedofbrandy · 30/10/2012 00:02

Argh posted to soon.

So why not boys and girls?

3bunnies · 30/10/2012 00:06

I think at the ages that the OP was talking about (boys of 2 and 3) hormones, although playing a part are probably less of and influence than that their role models are older boys (the two older brothers) who are under influence of hormones. My ds doesn't stand much of a chance, as although he has lots of 'boys/unisex' toys, many of which we had for the dd 1+2; his role models in how to play are both older girls. He wants to be like our al most 8yr old - as does dd2 who is nearly 6. I think that in a family of all boys or all girls, or where there is a critical mass of both sexes (e.g. 2 girls, 3 boys); it is probably easier to fall into gender stereotypes. Ds will need to be at preschool/school more before he gets lots of 'male' playmates.

I think too that as neither girl is massively pink and girly that he doesn't have loads to push against to make his distinct 'boy' persona. Maybe if the girls only played with barbies, wore only pink and wouldn't get a drop of mud on them he would see himself as more different.

I guess also it is whether the OP could get her dc to sit down and decorate a biscuit for example, if they were encouraged to. If my ds was running up and down when there was biscuit decorating to be done I would assume his sense of sight and smell had departed him. Running around is one thing, but I don't think it unreasonable to catch them one at a time and get them to decorate their own biscuit for snack time. If they aren't used to sitting down at least sometimes then they will find preschool/school hard. That isn't the difference between boys and girls, that is teaching a child of any gender that it is nice to sit down sometimes and do something with other people.

Inneedofbrandy · 30/10/2012 00:07

5 I think that is your dd, my dd never has played with dolls ever but my ds loves baby's and dolls and puts them to bed even now at 5.
The nursery dd went to always said it was the boys in the home corner and not the girls to.

Is quite silly to say IMO there is no difference between them.

Brycie · 30/10/2012 00:09

by the way, sorry for being flippant about something serious that affects your health Goths

3bunnies · 30/10/2012 00:11

5madthings interestingly ds is the only one of mine that really dotes on the dolls, but I put it down to him not having a real younger sibling to be jealous of. He will make a lovely daddy one day, if his testosterone ever kicks in!

itsnotjustaslap · 30/10/2012 00:14

I just don't know why it is so wrong to admit that fundamentally girls and boys are different. It just flies in the face of so much scientific evidence.

Male and female animals are different; so why wouldn't humans be? It is incredible arrogance to think that we are somehow different, and we're really not - we're just hairless apes ffs.

sings loudly 'you and me ain't nothing but mammals, so let's do it like they do it on the Discovery Channel'