To not get why a vaginal birth is so important to some people?

[Liketochat1]

Some mothers talk of the trauma and disappointment of not giving birth vaginally. Some say they don't feel like a proper woman or that their body failed them. For many this sounds very traumatic, for others moaning.
AIBU to not 'get' why this is so important to them? I've had 2 c sections and was only intensely grateful that I live in a country and in an age where there are gifted surgeons and resources available to perform these life saving operations. In other parts of the world women are dying in childbirth as they don't have access to these.
Am I so unreasonable to think this?

notafoodbaby - All this means people who had CS, especially an unplanned one, can very easily read "you are not a real woman as you missed the rite of passage", "your body doesn't work as it's meant to", therefore "you've jeopardised your baby's health, and your chances of successful breastfeeding.

Here here. And also to bissy's post too about the impact of a certain type of comment on women who are already feeling iffy about their birth.

The hidden implication behind some of the comments is that if you ended up with a cs its because you didn't do something right. I bet I did everything on that list - pilates, being active, not taking pain relief bar a TENS machine for 24 hours, thinking happy thoughts, embracing the pain... and still had a body that did not want to proceed happily with a VB.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that you found a VB easier, or calmer, or more empowering - but there is something wrong with implying that it is a "better" method of birth in general. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that you preferred to breasf-feed or that it helped you bond with your baby - but there is something wrong with implying that your bond is "greater" than that of mothers who ff'd.

Perhaps we should be more honest about what birth entails, facing up to the fact that it is risky, it is gory, it is painful and it can go wrong.

Some people sail through it, others don't. Considering how crap our bodies are at giving birth compared to other mammals, it's a surprise that it goes so well for so many people tbh.

nellybluth

"There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that you found a VB easier, or calmer, or more empowering - but there is something wrong with implying that it is a "better" method of birth in general. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that you preferred to breasf-feed or that it helped you bond with your baby - but there is something wrong with implying that your bond is "greater" than that of mothers who ff'd."

The trouble is, any time anyone says any of those things, people assume an implied criticism... That's evident from this thread alone.

So I might say:

"I found VB easier, calmer and more empowering than a CS. I preferred to breastfeed rather than formula feed, and I think it helped me bond with my baby."

You're already thinking it, aren't you!

db
xx

"Perhaps we should be more honest about what birth entails, facing up to the fact that it is risky, it is gory, it is painful and it can go wrong."

Actually I don't think we should be saying that.

I think we ought to be saying that it can be risky, some people may find it gory (I didn't, second time around), it is often painful, but not always unmanageably so, and it can go wrong, but often doesn't, (particularly if the mother gets the right advice and the support she needs).

Otherwise I think to set women up with an expectation of mind-altering pain and trauma is equally as unhelpful as setting them up with unrealistic and inflexible expectations of some kind of 'earth mother' experience.

Because I think mindset can impact, positively or negatively on one's birth experience to quite a large degree.

And that's NOT saying it's women's fault if things go wrong, just that there ARE things they can do to improve their odds for the birth they want, (whatever that is,) and the mindset with which they approach it is one of those things.

db
xx

I never knew it was a big deal for some parents until I come on the mums forums to be honest! And yes I don't get it neither.

Emily, but now you do, so maybe you can try?!

That's probably the best outcome from this thread...

www.nhs.uk/news/2011/11November/Pages/hospital-births-home-births-compared.aspx this study seems to suggest outcomes are marginally better in hospital than at home or mlu

certainly doesnt support the idea that hospitals complicate birth

I've had three CS and to be frank when, after 36 hours of labour, they told me I had to have emcs my only emotion was relief.

There was a lot more emotion surrounding what happened afterwards - special care, meningitis etc- but the CS was a small detail in the scheme of what happened afterwards.

But I never understood the specialness of natural birth on the first place..

i cant trawl through whole thread, but i dont get it either, its just the animal body i was born with - I was able to birth my daughter well apparently, but i dont feel proud - or great because of it - just lucky actually after the horrendous time nealry ALL of my close friends went through,

feeling like your a failure becasue something went wrong is a sympton of our culture and attitudes....

do you feel like a failure if you cant bend your legs behind your head - run like mo farrah, or ussain bolt?

labour is a function - there are millions of reasons why it goes wrong. you have grown a baby for a whole 9 months - who cares how it gets out - as long as mother and baby are safe to then continue the journey for the rest of thier whole lives!

i very much see my body as something i happened to be born in, and something different to my spirit and who i am its a vessel.

I had an epidural, pethadine, pitocin and an emergency caesarean.
I certainly didn't and don't feel like a failure, not would I have preferred a VBAC as it would have likely resulted in my death as well as my child.

I also exclusively breast fed with no problems and am still doing so at 6mo. I've never had bonding issues, and my pain post op was managed, just, with painkillers and not moving very much.

If women feel like a failure because they were unable to deliver 'normally' then that is a sad indictment on society.

I am damn proud of myself for conceiving, gestating, giving birth to and parenting my fabulous 5 year old.

I think a vaginal birth would have been much easier and it is the more normal / natural way our bodies expel our children. Its usually much kinder on women's bodies - perhaps these are why women prefer it.

I do feel it was a shame that I was expected to be upset I hadn;t "acheived and normal delivery' and that frankly its noones buisiness how i gave birth in many ways.

The focus of my birth, bet you are the same, was to get my DD out safe :) And she was.

I had major bonding issues and I had a so called text book birth - 23 mins pushing, have been told i have great birthing pelvis and i breast fed!

horses for courses, i dont judge anyone wanting a candle lit home birth and no one should judge the other way either.

the best result is an alive mother and baby - acheived in the least traumatic way possible.

shagmund

I am not going to get into a debate of whether or not ff or bf ing is better. However I am going to point out that my DS1 was ALLERGIC TO BREAST MILK! Therefore without a specialised formula he would have been seriously ill, malnourished and could have died. Is breast milk therefore harmful????

You are confusing the fact that there are not anti bodies in formula and due to human error in making up the formula some babies become ill. This IS NOT the same as saying formula itself is harmful.

I was lucky enough to feed my DS2 myself for six months, however I appreciate that formula is a valuable alternative to breast milk and that not everyone can breast feed and choosing to formula feed in no way makes you less of a woman.

Not bothering to post on this thread again as it just winds me up how people can say a woman is a FAILURE because of something that can be totally out of their control. IE, birth and infant feeding.

Now if someone was smoking during pregnancy, around their child or feeding a chocolate cake to a three month old, I would understand people judging but honestly, judging over birth method and ff vs bf, GET A GRIP!

*Not the same anti bodies in formula that there are in breast milk

But nobody IS judging, Panda... where has anyone said "a woman is a FAILURE because of something that can be totally out of their control. IE, birth and infant feeding." on this thread?

Not shagmund, thats for sure...

I love it when these threads kick off!!

All the old stats get reeled off about MLu compared to this that and the other.

Whilst all of this is useful, ish - there are so many other things that come into play, not least of all a womans personal emotions - circumstances and brain!

A woman who is pregnant is not just a bloody lump of flesh, she is a thinking feeling person!!!!

Lots of women give birth and dont tear, dont have major " physical" trauma - but many like me - had MENTAL trauma, because - YES! We have brains and emotions as well!!! That also come with us into labour!

elizaregina

Fantastic post, totally agree. I happen to be shit at labour and birth but I accept for the most part there is feck all I can do about it

Cross post lol

Elizaregina - yes, THAT.
db
xx

designer

She is saying that formula is harmful. I am pointing out that for some babies breast milk is harmful.

Maybe I have been a bit harsh but from what I have read she seems to see formula feeding as a unnessesery evil inflicted on the poor wee bairns.

I am trying to say that actually in the grand scheme of things formula feeding or breast feeding isn't that important and there are many other more important factors that affect our physical and mental wellbeing. The same goes for birth methods.
How many of use know or indeed care how our mothers laboured and gave birth?

Do you see what I mean?

Us not use

Panda, I do know how my mother laboured and gave birth.

Because she was unable to have any more children afterwards, so I am an only child, and because she had long term mental health problems as a result, which blighted my entire childhood and adolescence.

IT'S IMPORTANT.

Sufficient?

Someone mentioned up above about the importance of "promoting" natural birth. There's also a lot of talk of "choice" being respected.

I absolutely support people getting to make their own choices about how they give birth BUT I think the issue is a double-edged sword.

The reality is that we don't have that much choice in the matter. What happens is mostly not down to our brain or the "research" we've done but (to use the wonderful phrase above) our "animal bodies". It's genetics, ours and our babies'. We can't predict how well we can handle the very distinctive pains of labour, or what complications might arise. We can't see into the future and guess if a lowered heart rate is a baby in distress or just a difficulty with the monitor.

You just don't know and I think that more and more we expect life to be orderly and predictable. And call it capitalism or materialism or consumerism or whatever but we also expect to be able to pay some money for an antenatal course or a gadget and that gives us an illusion of control but we are all at the mercy of chance really.

I haven't suffered birth trauma so I don't know but I feel like maybe if we placed less emphasis on "choice" and "natural" and were more frank about the fact that while you'll probably be okay actually things can get quite scary quite fast and sometimes people end up with pretty bad injuries and while you can do stuff like perineal massage or whatever to slightly lessen the chances of that happening, there are no guarantees. Sometimes it's just really tough. Like I said though I don't really know what I'm talking about here so please tell me to piss off if you like .

What I was trying to get at db, I probably didn't, was that there are ways of saying you enjoyed a VB or you enjoyed bf'ing, or preferred them if you have had experience of a cs or ff'ing, that personalises the comment, as opposed to ways of saying that it is just generally "better".

So, to me, comments such as Boomerwang's I didn't want a scar, I didn't want to be laid up for ages, I didn't want the higher risk of infection, I didn't want to be cut open. That's why a vaginal birth was so important to me or Librarians I've had 3 vaginal deliveries, 2 at home, no tearing etc. I enjoy giving birth; the idea of a section with everything that can go with it (hospital stay, possible infection, not being able to drive for 6 weeks, having to run around after 2 toddlers while dealing with a newborn) don't bear thinking about are both personal statements that don't imply any criticism or sense of being better than a woman who had a cs. Ditto the comment you put in your reply to me.

However, comments such as Bonsoir's Vaginal delivery of a baby without pain relief is a fabulous human experience! That's why it's important! is the kind of generalised statement that can make women feel as though they have failed.

Yes, sorry if I offended. I do see your point and agree that is important and a defining point in both your mothers and your life.

I simply mean that vaginal birth is no better or worse than a c section in my opinion and that for most women once the child is a little older it makes no odds as to how they entered the world and the child is no better or worse off for being born by a c section.

Hope that makes more sense and once again sorry