to not understand how peiple afford to live?

[pregnantpause]

I'm so fed up ATM. Me and dh work, me part time, as young dc, we live in a very cheap area if the country (and I suppose our wages reflect that), jointly we bring home under 26 thousand pa). We get 40 a month tax credits, which doesn't seem much, and I've just got a letter to say they've over paid us by 200 in the last year. HOW? Forty quid a month, and that's overpaid? How do people survive? Paying that back will take us into overdraft ans furture payments will now be around twenty quid less? Are we the scroungers everyone talks about? Am I the lazy feclkless parent that won't get a full time .job and sponges off the state? I can't go full time, my employer has no hours to give. Dh can't get a better paid job- there are none. With energy bills going up and food costing the earth how do people live. I seriously worry that people with even a little bit less than me will be pushed over the edge, old people, disabled people, how can people afford to survive now? Aibu to think that it won't be long (or already happening) before people are made homeless, just because the cost I'd living is so far apart from what we earn?

Get rid of your car if you have one. You'll save so much money.

vintage the physics job is in finance. I remember reading an article on bbc on physics. It says most graduates work either in finance or go into further education. This is also my personal experience. I did a postdoc in a STEM area. A lot of postdocs go into the City.

Gobbledegook- I have, repeatedly said that I am one of the lucky ones. I know that, I was stating that I worry for people who have less, with no room for manoeuvre, and no one to turn to. In sorry if I came across as ungrateful for what I have- I'm not and I do recognize that I have A LOT more than some (although that's partly due to living in a very cheap and run down area, if we lived anywhere else we would be up against a barrel)

And software engineers get paid a lot less than finance. I am one and I earn far far less than my ex postdoc colleagues. I just can't stomach working for a hedge fund or investment bank.

OLTT: Thanks for the tip. I didn't realize the finance sector in the UK also recruited physics and maths grads. In the US, it does, but I didn't think that the UK did the same thing.

As a scientist i have to say they money here is not what it was. I earn a decent amount but for the sector i am very underpaid. Dont get me wrong i am more than happy but i work for a multi million pound company. They should pay us what we are worth. There are people here who had more money when studying for a PhD as it was untaxed.

The ones the postdocs go for all require very good maths. All the applicants have a STEM postgraduate degree. I'm not sure what the hiring is like now. I was lucky that I quit my postdoc in 2008 before the crash!

Er you are worth what someone will pay you.

There is an enormous difference between not being able to find work and not being able to find work that is rewarding and well remunerated.

Somebody, I thought PhD stipends were currently untaxed? That's what I recently heard anyway...

My husband is a scientist. He took a pay cut to come to the UK, though the increased job security compensates for the loss of some of that income. However, I have a $30,000 (~ £18,800) stipend while studying the US; I have to give it up if I study in the UK. The cost of living is higher in the UK than in the US, so it could be a real struggle adjustment.

The government should be working on creating jobs and helping small to medium businesses - by helping I don't mean letting them shaft their employees.

The problem we have round here is the lack of jobs. People can't just up and leave to cities, because moving is expensive, rents and house prices in cities are more expensive and there aren't enough jobs to go round anyway.

Saying that people are worth what someone will pay them is a pretty poor argument, since nobody wants to see people going hungry or homeless. If things get worse the have-nots are going to see what the haves are enjoying and they're going to want some for themselves. I don't really want to be a have or have not in that scenario.

I did a software engineering degree and left university in 99. I got paid more then than grads do now. The arse has fallen out of the industry and jobs have been exported to the sub-continent... or its inhabitants imported to the UK due to "lack of UK talent" . So don't kid yourselves thinking that it's all gold-plated, it's not - it's just a springboard to management. Or social exclusion.

It's not the bloody govts Role to create jobs, that is the role of us the population.

I realize that. I was not just referring to myself when i said that. I know many other companies in my field pay more to similarly qualified staff.

For example. When i left uni i accepted a job with a company that specified they wanted an applicant with a degree. This was a pre requisite. The salary offered was £13 000.

The same company also wanted to hire someone in a supervisory position , i.e with a degree and experience of lab work and of being supervisor in a lab. They offered £16 000.

Was it worth going to uni ? Maybe. Im not sure.

I am not trying to say all graduates are amazing and should get 6 figure salaries but surely if a company specifies they ONLY want someone with a degree they should be paying more than £13 000 ? According to this website link that is less than £1000 above minimum wage after spending 3 years getting a required qualification.

I'm sorry vintage maybe i want clear. Her stipend was not taxable so therefore she very nearly had more money as a PhD student was what i meant.

Dolomites, this same thing is happening/has happened in the US. Engineering firms claim they can't find US talent, so they hire from India, paying 1/3 to 1/2 what a comparable American would get for the same job. There's one famous story of an engineering firm in San Francisco-one of the most expensive cities in the US, comparable to London-looking for degreed and certified engineers; the firm wanted to pay $12.00/hour (~ £7.53/hour). And they wondered why they couldn't get Americans (may of whom have tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt) to apply for the jobs.

I have a few friends who have left engineering altogether to go into medicine because becoming a medical doctor (physician) provides better job opportunities than engineering. Sad, isn't it?

It is the govts role, that's exactly the sort of shizzle we vote them in for. They're meant to help the country and the economy. If they can't help to create jobs then they are doing a poor job aren't they.

Providing help to entrepreneurs etc is exactly the sort of thing they could help with. They could be helping disabled people, victims of domestic violence and other disadvantaged people start up businesses. I wouldn't begrudge my taxed going on that. Give a man a fish and all that.

That's a matter of opinion. I would rather govt were involved in far less

I'm curious now London - what exactly do you think the Govt's role should be?

Somebody - if no graduates were available at 13000 then they would pay more. Graduates essentially know fuck all about work! My starting salary as a graduate was similar as we're many of my friends.

Someone has ro do something, and it involves money. The people who could benefit the most from new jobs heppen to be the ones with no capital.

That said, I know a fair few people who claim they can't find work, but what they actually mean is they don't want to do a menial job at minimum wage. When the benefit changes come in, the menial, low paid jobs are going to start looking more appealing. But the smart people will have cottoned on by then.

'It's not the bloody govts Role to create jobs, that is the role of us the population.'

Yes, it is. It is their role to provide economic stimulation and good infrastructure (including maintaining the peace). Otherwise, hey, why bother with one at all?

And you can rent a decent 2 or 3 bed here for just over 400pcm. Only thing is, getting to the nearest town is £6.50 return on the bus, so if you have a family, you struggle if you don't run a car. We just have a few small shops in our village. A little pricey and don't sell a vast range of food.

And there's that small matter of jobs. Or lack of. That's why prices here stay so low.

To provide a safety net for those in distress, to support carers and people with disabilities, to organise large infrastructure projects eg transport and to provide health and education services. That's off the top of my head. The is more, I just remembered defence!

London, perhaps you should consider moving to the US? Your views are clearly in line with the Tea Party. You'd be a welcome addition to their ranks.