to not understand how peiple afford to live?

[pregnantpause]

I'm so fed up ATM. Me and dh work, me part time, as young dc, we live in a very cheap area if the country (and I suppose our wages reflect that), jointly we bring home under 26 thousand pa). We get 40 a month tax credits, which doesn't seem much, and I've just got a letter to say they've over paid us by 200 in the last year. HOW? Forty quid a month, and that's overpaid? How do people survive? Paying that back will take us into overdraft ans furture payments will now be around twenty quid less? Are we the scroungers everyone talks about? Am I the lazy feclkless parent that won't get a full time .job and sponges off the state? I can't go full time, my employer has no hours to give. Dh can't get a better paid job- there are none. With energy bills going up and food costing the earth how do people live. I seriously worry that people with even a little bit less than me will be pushed over the edge, old people, disabled people, how can people afford to survive now? Aibu to think that it won't be long (or already happening) before people are made homeless, just because the cost I'd living is so far apart from what we earn?

'It is possible, dh and I lived on a far smaller amount when we had dd, dh on about 15k a year, and tax credits on top. We didn't go out, have takeaways, smoke or drink, kids clothes and shoes off eBay asda smart price everything. It's not nice but it's doable. We were lucky in that we owned our home and were able to swap to an interest only mortgage.'

That is why it was possible. You do accept that if you a) have a high rent b) can't switch to interest only/have a mortgage that's higher than the interest you paid, that it's not possible?

And how long ago was this? Because the price of food has gone up quite markedly in the past year, and so has the price of power/gas/fuel.

I love this assumption that if you are struggling, you smoke, drink, have takeaways and buy lots of clothes at full price.

This thing about food costs rising disproportionately affects poorer people too. I live in a town and I can easily walk to tesco or sains. I also have asda, morrisons etc within a few minutes drive. I'm not noticing an increase in food, because there are always so many special offers because of the large cluster of supermarkets.

Expat, you won't have the same choice because of where you live, and if people can't afford fares or petrol to shop around, they're stuck paying higher prices.

It was a couple of years ago. I think if we had been renting we would have had to move to a smaller property, 2 bed terrace rather than 3 bed semi (round here you can get a 2 bed for around £400pcm)
I still maintain it is possible, people I know are living on that amount even now. Mum at home with kids, dad working for around £15k a year, sometimes less. Then again, I live in an area of west Yorkshire which is very deprived, kids wearing hand me downs, older brothers shoes etc is normal round here. Heating and hot water went on for an hour a day and we shared bath water or the kids went into the shower together. Year before last the boiler broke in December and we borrowed an oil radiator from my mum for the front room, until we could get the boiler fixed, which was done in march. There are many things we did without, but we all stayed healthy and the kids were happy enough, even if christmas presents were what we could find at the charity shop rather than what was on the list.

'(round here you can get a 2 bed for around £400pcm)'

Wow! That does not exist for many, many people in the UK, and if they're working their £15K job, they can't just quit and move to an area like that.

So while it was possible for you, in W. Yorkshire, with one child, it is not for many, many people. They have to pay high rents and council tax.

There are many things which are possible for our family which are due entirely to our location that I know are not possible for other families because of their locale.

It's not exactly rocket science.

Oh, and those people living on that £15K, well, once Universal Credit comes out, all the powers of light help them!

It's not an assumption expat, just that these were the ways that we made economies, if we had had the money, we would have had a bottle of wine, a takeaway every so often, and bought new clothes. To me, these things are not essential. What is essential for living is a roof over your head, clothes on your back and food in your belly, and we made economies by buying second hand bundles off eBay, cheap food, and heating the house as minimally as possible. Yes we worried about the capital sum at the end of the mortgage, but that was 15 years away, kids would have been grown up by then allowing me to go out to work too and earn more.

Many people can't get a 2 bed for £400 PCM. Clearly I am aware of this fact. Op asked can people survive on less? I answered yes because I've done it. I was able to partly because of where I live and partly because we were lucky enough to get on the property ladder before things got silly. But it is certainly possible, and round here, it's fairly common.

And why are you assuming that people are not already wearing hand-me-downs and running the heat/hot water all the time?

It's such an arrogant, smug mentality - oh, they must be smoking, drinking, having takeaways, buying new clothes, have Sky.

Not, 'Wages have not kept pace with the rising costs of food, fuel, council tax, rents,' which appears to be the essence of the problem.

Relying on tax credits isn't going to work once they trot out the Universal Credit, particularly if you are self-employed.

I think it's the housing costs, energy bills and childcare costs. If you have those sorted, you should be fine. If I ever own a house, which is unlikely, I would like to install solar panels. Apparently you can make money from the government that way and you will have no or very minimal electricity bills.

'If I ever own a house, which is unlikely, I would like to install solar panels. Apparently you can make money from the government that way and you will have no or very minimal electricity bills.'

Make sure it's an area where it's permitted to install them.

I'd go for one of those eco-friendly kit houses myself.

Yes, it's just about possible, but it's shit!! I think shoes for a kid is and essential though, so you're not just cutting out non-essentials. We too struggle every time a bill comes in, and we budget, and live pretty modestly. We are not in poverty though, our kids eat well, and dress well (as in warmly! not designer) poverty to some is moderate to others. Just when you think you cannot continue like this, they make it even harder, no wonder people riot, and i too predict more riots when people can't feed their kids they get kinda tetchy!

Food is getting quite high. We live in a rural area, so have only one shop, a Morrison's, that's not that big. I normally do our big shop in ASDA once a month quite a distance away because even with the cost of diesel it works out cheaper, but I went in there to pick up some vegetable oil yesterday and noticed everything was quite dear.

We are mostly veggie, but those who try to eat a lot of meat must be feeling it.

Think the government is putting a stop to all that solar panel shit too :(

Could you look for a FT job, would you be any better off?

Expat, I've clearly come across all wrong, you seem determined that I have assumed that people who can't live on less than 26k per year are all fag smoking drinking profligates who can't budget and eat truffles for dinner in their 4 bed detached house whilst heating blazes in every room.
Perhaps my original post wasnt well worded. I simply stated that I have done it, for almost 2 years, and those were the lengths I went to to make sure we had the essentials for life, with everything pared off, no excess. I have already said in other parts of the country it may not be possible due to rents, and it may not be possible even now here due to rising food costs and energy bills. But I do know that many of my friends even now are living on £15k or less in my local area, and somehow they manage to feed and clothe their kids and keep the roof over their heads. The kids are clean, adequately clothed, fed and happy.

It's deeply depressing.
I have been a sahm now for a decade through choice and due to my own health issues.
When ds1 was born dh was earning less than £20k pa but our mortgage was quite low.
He is now earning more but we have 2 kids, a larger mortgage and our food bill is horrendous - and I can't see me going back to work anytime soon :(
We live in a village so the only shop is a co op which is very very expensive.
Am having a bad time health wise ATM but up til last month was seriously considering getting rid of my car. Don't think I can now. Wouldn't be able to walk the school run 3 x per day :(
Dh and I don't drink or smoke, we don't go out, we have one holiday per year in the uk (thanks to a work bonus payment otherwise that wouldn't happen either)
Really got to start budgeting after Xmas...I think next year will be very tough for so many...:(

And I completely agree that wages are not rising at all, let alone in line with living costs. My first job in 1993 as a clerk I earned 12k pa, at my last visit to the job centre last year, clerks were advertised as around 8 k and a managerial position in retail at around 13k

YANBU, I am currently on benefits as my son is disabled and at present all the worry of how I will pay my rent is taken away from me. However, money is still very very tight, energy costs have risen, food costs have risen and so has petrol. Some might see a car as a luxury but mine was a £250 oldie bought from eBay and utterly essential for is given that my son is autistic and freaks out in public sometimes.
And I get DLA so am better off than many on benefits....God only knows how they manage.
It's the same for my friends working on a low wage and struggling.

So what I do (and am sure you are already doing)

I no longer have the heating/hot water on a timer, instead I switch it n for 30 mins when we need baths and to warm the house through.
I cook meals from scratch and freeze when I have time and freezer room.
I shop online as I find I am much more controlled about what I buy.
I buy clothes from eBay for me and look round charity shops too...the only new thing I have bought this year has been a coat from Tesco for DS.
Even much if my furniture is secondhand.....except for the nice flat screen TV bought when I worked full time (do I win a prize for mentioning "flat screen")?

Even when I go back I to work (because I don't anticipate being on benefits forever) I suspect I will continue doing the same as I do now to get by.

Life is hard and it's hideous sometimes....

On our local news last night they said rents in our region are likely to rise by 53%!. 15yo DS2 was stopped in his tracks! He said it isn't going to work without wages rising to cover costs, or the government stepping in to do something! If he can get it, why can't the bloody people running the country?

We manage OK and are fortunate, but I am still quite frugal. I notice the price of things all the time. I bought a turnip the other day, smaller than a tennis ball, to put I a stew, it was 73p! 73p for a small fecking turnip!

I usually shop online, but we popped into Asda the other day, and I noticed that most people's trolleys were full of Smartprice stuff. We have, also, started using HomeBargains and Lidl's a lot for things. Lidl's washing power is cheap and brilliant.

Times are fecking hard, there is no doubt!

£26k a year would be very very hard to manage on. It's really tough if there are not better paid jobs in your area. Could you take in ironing or do babysitting

Who wants to fucking live like that though. Yes I could have made my own candles with ear wax to save on electricity but having studied hard for a degree, saved fit a home deposit, thought carefully and planned each child why should I be scratching arou d charity shops for my kids presents. It's not about whether you can survive more why the fuck should we in a so called civilized society.

DP and I both work and bring in £25K gross between us.

Every few weeks one of us will say "How on Earth are we managing?" We really don't know.

We will only ever have the one DC though :(

In 1999 after a few years of being really skint I got a decent part time job (in addition to DP's full time job) At that point the cost of energy, food and petrol was proportionately significantly lower. For the few years we were in that position we didn't have to think about money at all. We used to do stuff like eat out without batting an eyelid, buy new furniture, computers and NOT ONCE did we have to do sums/budget.

Now, we are in a similar position - DP working full time, me 4 days a week. We live way more frugally now than we ever did during our personal 'boom'. We have a 20 year old car, everything is second hand, no holidays, no meals out or takeaways - but we are constantly having to budget/do sums.

And the reason for this IMHO is the rise in energy, particularly food and petrol.

Interestingly, yesterday I found a load of old bank statements from 2000 - 2007. The amount of money we spent in the supermarket was much less than now. The money coming in (including child benefit) was pretty similar.