Not to let my daughter go to play date because my friend smacks her children?

[AutumnGlory]

We have being friends for 5 years, we first met when our dds were babies and we have been having play dates when convenient for both of us, albeit children going to different schools, we busy with our jobs and her having more 2 children since, the play dates are not as often as it used to be. Anyway she is very open about people know how stressed she has been with 3 kids, how desperate she is to go back to work when her mat leave finishes and how she is now spanking and shouting no end. She keeps asking for my dd to go there after school but I really don't want my daughter in this atmosphere. The invitation most of the time is not open to me, she wants me to drop off and collect so I don't see how will she cope with 4 kids -and dd is no angel- if she can't cope with 3 of her own. The days I go and stay, friend and I stay downstairs with baby and her 2 children plus mine go upstairs often with bedroom door closed and we can just hear lots of shouting and thumping as they don't have toys and are not allowed tv I have no idea what they play. I don't invite anymore because my dd's toys always get broken, they fight over sharing as though as they never saw toys in their life, they don't listen to me. Or to my friend and she ends up stressed and smacking in my house and I don't like it. We are telling friend to go to GP but she thinks once she goes back to work things will get better. Ah, let me add she complains she can't cope and hate being at home with children since she had only one but still went on to have two more. And they were planned.

No I don't mind people expressing their views here however different of mine they are, yes I got all funny in the begning because I felt personally attacked just for being honest saying what I think but I snapped out of that. I'm not hiding the fact that I might be envious of her lifestyle yes, she has got more money and always had more choices / opportunities all around, but that is just life I know I need to accept this. Yes as people say maybe I don't like her and respect her as much as other friends of mine but I would like to think it is just not because I'm slightly envious but also because in the5 years she too used my friendship and the fact I'm worse off financially and have other difficulties in my life / the fact I let my daughter watch TV sometimes and the fact I keep clutter toys, yes she used it to feel better about herself...there were so many comments coming from her during these years that makes me think she does need to see other people struggles in order to make hers more unbearable too. I could post some of them later on to check if I am being U or not but I will be busy for most of the day. So I guess there is back story but going back to the original OP I might let my dd go there if I manage to tell her before hand not to k her children in front of mine, also I might invite hers when I get a break/ have no mindees, but not after a days work. Oh and she came here one day during my working hours with her middle child (3,5) and she threatened and smacked child in front of mindees. No thanks this can't be happening in my house specially when I'm working. Also yes I feel massively smug and happy my dd's school turned out to be better because the amount of grief I was given that dd would speak like a chav IF she managed to learn any english at all since the majority of the school were foreigners - read muslim- was very hurtful and ignorant.

And games that require adult interaction a great when you actually want to interact with the children, not sEnd them upstairs, let them close the door, ignore screams and general noise than complain everything is too messy, too noisy, too crazy and starting shouting and smacking for them to tidy up and calm down. I'm talking about two 5 years old and one 3,5 so not exactly that age when they sit nicely for hours just doing colouring or can play/talk nicely, tidy up nicely whit out adult intervention from time to time.

Maybe your overwhelming superiority and smugness put her on edge?

I don't think so. I'm good at hiding my smugness and don't feel superior at all. In fact I feel inferior and I have big chip on my shoulder. I don't even judge her or anybody else for smacking. But I have the right to not agree as she has the right not to want TV. And if she was uncomfortable with my presence she wouldn't be seeking me. She likes to see my 'financially inferior lifestyle' so she can be happier with herself.

Witnessing shouting and smacking if you aren't used to it must be upsetting for a child. For that reason alone I wouldn't send your DD there but invite her child over to your house for a bit of respite.

Sounds like you don't like her and you not think she likes you. Can't see the point in maintaining the friendship.

The eldest girls on the other hand seem to be friends so I would be inclined to allow the play dates, although you shouldn't be sending your fighter to her if you don't want hers back so if you really can't stomach it you need to as no on the basi that you are not inn a position to reciprocate.

'She likes to see my 'financially inferior lifestyle' so she can be happier with herself.'

That is a huge chip I agree.

Your friendship is based on you both negatively feeding off each other to make yourselves feel better about your own situations.

It's a very odd way of doing things, and can't be good for either of you.

Agree with zigzag

That answer surprised me given what you've written so far AG

Maybe in a weird way you both turn it into a positive.

Everyone has their own selfish reasons for staying friends with another person, perhaps those are the main ones for you and her?

Because if it was that bad you'd have stayed away from her long before now, and you wouldn't be wanting to talk about how you feel on here.

Unless you're only using her as an example to actually talk about your situation and how you think it makes other people feel about you?

I think the main reason is our children be good friends. And when I first met her I didn't have that many friends nor a job. I think I was isolated and she provided me with adult stimulation and companion and I provided her with free child care sometimes. I didn't used to notice she needed to be friends with me and feed off my troubles to feel better until I started getting better off myself, go out there, meet other people/mums, no longer have time for play dates or having her child around whilst she was busy. I guess interaction with other people made me realise that her remarks about my life where a bit odd. Or maybe I'm just a paranoid, selfish envious cow...either way I don't think she should smack her kids in other people's house or even when there are other children in her house. I worry about her children self esteem in the long run as well as this cant be good for children's confidence. But this is not my problem. Anyway, maybe one day I will name change and open a brand new thread about friendship and quote her antics to see what people's opinions are. Thanks

The real issue here is the frequency of the smacking/shouting/aggressive behaviour towards her children.

Such behaviour has to be last resort in desperate circumstances, if it becomes a first resort thats real worry and plus the poor buggers having no toys.

I thought I would update this tread because yesterday I asked said friend to come for a play date after school. She said she was gonna leave her older daughter here and take the middle one to a class so she wouldn't stay and I said fine. She knocked on the door with older daughter and baby because she asked someone else to take middle daughter to the class. Than she received a phone call, turned out there were no class and she left to go fetch the girl. She than comes back and she has her 3 children in my house at this point which I'm not very happy with....even though I wasn't working as all my mindees went earlier I wanted a nice relaxed play date for my daughter nor craziness. Friend also brought someone else with no kids which was fine..more help I thought. A part from the fact as soon as other people is with us she changes a lot, she disagrees with everything a say and talks very awkwardly with me, making me feel inferior - I know she is not responsible for my feelings...btw- also she tries to show off and be a perfect mother which just causes her even more stress because she is not acting naturally so when she looses it, which she will eventually, and in fact she did, it is even worse. ....

I ought to add that when I told my daughter her friend was coming she looked a bit worried and asked: is friend's mum staying? I said: no...than my daughter was excited and happy. ALso want to add I have met friend in a neutral place over the weekend and also wasn't a very nice experience not nay because of her stress but also the way I feel towards her comments about m life. I am wondering if she is borderline EA in a very subtle way? I like her and wanted to keep the friendship but I need to learn how to deal with her at the moment. I really want to open a thread about the things she says to me but I'm wondering if I will out myself....have no idea if she is a MMnetter though.

More money no issues.
Lack of toys - well they have some - that's fine isn't it? Why shouldn't they have fewer toys - lots of things the kids could find to do without bought toys.

The smacking I wouldn't like - My ds was around some children who's father just was smacking, pushing and pulling hair. It made him very scared. On that point I would never let my ds around their place again - not because for a minute I though they would do that to him but because it made him feel generally scared, uncomfortable for those kids and vulnerable.

Few toys, no tv etc - no big deal.

I understand few toys and no TV not big deal But than she is always looking for playdated in her place or other people's place because her children don't know how to entertain themselves and she doesn't want t entertain them so children end up misbehaving or not leaving her alone and she ends up smacking. My daughter have a wide range of toys some of them she got a long time a go and she is always playing even all by herself with lots of differ nets toys in so many different ways I think it is very good for her creativity and imagination. When I am no up to entertain her she is never bored because she actually have things to do. Also when her children get toys from birthday or Christmas she gives them a time frame for them to play than gives the toys always if the toy doesn't meet HER expectations. Even the toys her husband buys whiteout consulting her....

Wow - this is a very strange lady indeed then. But either way I couldnt have my kid around a family like that , not because the don'[t want tv and have issues around toys, but because my kid has never been around violence.

Wow what a bad last post, what is going on with me my IPad?

For goodness sake just stop seeing the woman - sounds like you'll both be a damn sight happier for it.

Im struggling with the reason you have stayed friends with this women. I appreciate your girls are friends but they will have lots of friends at school so is their friendship that relevant?

Its sounds horrible, bitchy & judgmental...not the stuff good friendships are made of!

She sounds all round horrendous - selfish and aggressive, and sadly her children will probably turn out the same.
I wouldn't subject my children to her - it would scare the living daylights out of them.
Just a shame that your daughter is such good friends with hers.
Can you try steering your daughter to friends in more normal families?
Good luck x

I always felt a bit uncomfortable in her presence specially due to some of her comments towards my husband and life style but I didn't realise I was being kind of emotionally abused by her. You know how abusers make you feel shitty and great at the same time and I was ever so confused. I didn't know friends could emotionally abuse you. Maybe she is what people call toxic.