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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask at what age you expect dc to pay fine for not paying a train fare ?

51 replies

omghelpmeplease · 18/10/2012 20:57

ds got caught for not paying
what age do you say - you pay ?
he is 15
did it on purpose
sold rubbish dvd player to shop and got 15 for it (fine is 20)
he gets 5 a week pocket money if he tidies his room
he went out tonight and blew the 15 on sweets (!)
said oh well 'the parents' will have to pay it coz i am under age
What are the legal ins and outs?
are we liable? (Cant afford it!)
is he ?

OP posts:
LFCisTarkaDahl · 18/10/2012 21:00

I have no idea whether you're liable or not - but I would just sell anything he had of value to cover it. Not let him sell it, but remove stuff from his room in my house to pay for it.

ZillionChocolate · 18/10/2012 21:01

I suspect you have to pay it and dock his pocket money/sell his belongings.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman · 18/10/2012 21:04

I'd say he pays purely on the grounds that he thinks it's OK to do it because his parents will have to cough up. If it means selling some of his prized possessions to pay you back because you pay it then so be it.

LittleBearPad · 18/10/2012 21:04

If he knew the consequences of travelling without a fare (you say he did it on purpose) then he should pay or have his pocket money docked until its paid off. You could also confiscate his sweets - I'm sure you deserve some chocolate

squeakytoy · 18/10/2012 21:04

he is old enough to know he has to pay, therefore old enough to pay the fine out of his own pocket..

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/10/2012 21:06

he is legally deamed to have no income so any fine would be based on your ability to pay and you are liable.

given that he (based soley on his age and education status not your income) is entitled to child benefit why on earth would you expect the system to go after him, rather than you, you know the one who is legally and financially responsable for him.

sounds like you need to address his dishonest behaviour, then get him to pay you back any fine ordered and the money he obviously stole and used for something else (im hoping you did actually give him train fare in the first place)

radiohelen · 18/10/2012 21:09

What a bloody cheek saying you'll pay for it! No pocket money. No phone credit. No nothing until he has paid his debt.

Mrsjay · 18/10/2012 21:12

Id give him no more money until his debt is paid I wouldn't pay it tbh until he gets a reminder let him clear it uphimself he sounds defiant and hard work you would be liable though he is 15 you are the adult responsible for him

Whistlingwaves · 18/10/2012 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

complexnumber · 18/10/2012 21:18

£15 on chocolate. Bloody Nora! What did he buy!

(At that age I would probably have been trying to spend it on Watneys Pale Ale, the 70's were strange times...)

Kalisi · 18/10/2012 21:20

You should definately sell some of his belongings! You are legally obliged to pay the fine but I think you pretty much own the air he breathes till he's 18 anyway so its yours anyway Wink

Sallyingforth · 18/10/2012 21:28

Whoever pays the fine, it's still recorded as his offence. It won't look good for him if/when you can persuade him to look for a job.

Original poster
omghelpmeplease · 18/10/2012 21:35

he is SO hard work versus his siblings
school agree and they suspected aspergers for ages but he refuses/walks out of any appointments
anyway- dh wants to let it escalate and scare him - i honestly Dont think he will care at all!
he doesn't have phone credit
yes of course he was given train fare
should i tell him i am taking something or just take it?
he can be very aggressive and antagonistic
today he argued with his older brother and pulled a kitchen knife at him (in the kitchen) and his brother pushed him into the wall to get him away and he said he was going to ring the police on him (younger vs older) but actually didn't .

OP posts:
Icelollycraving · 18/10/2012 21:47

Sounds like you have more going on with him than a knocked fine.

Original poster
omghelpmeplease · 18/10/2012 22:03

yes of course
but the fine is the current issue

OP posts:
Original poster
omghelpmeplease · 18/10/2012 22:04

btw
thanks if that was a nice sympathetic comment!

OP posts:
Icelollycraving · 18/10/2012 22:12

It was,I wasn't being snippy.

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/10/2012 22:30

i cant remember off the top of my head if they can take you to court for a fare dodge, but if they can, given the issues you have with him it may well be worth letting them do it.

chances are he will get a referal order (or the current equililent) and you could get a bit of enforced support. a long time ago i used to supervise referal orders and it was quite comen practice to put into contracts that the child had to do certain things like work on actions and consiquences,and you can access other services easyer if the referal comes from the yot. as long as he sticks to the contract (and it is personally taylored but obviously within what they can do it also has to be acheiveable)he gets no criminal record as it gets wiped. win win the way i see it and they do have a very high sucess rate.

have you got a letter? does it say they can take him to criminal court as opposed to small claims?

Kalisi · 18/10/2012 23:04

Personally, I would sell something of his without telling him. I would make sure that it was obvious though so when he asks where his dvd's/games/c.d's are then I would tell him that I sold them to pay off his fine.
But that advice only stands if he was just having a normal,stroppy ,petulant teenager episode. From your last post however,it does seem that there are some other serious underlying issues here and his behaviour needs to be addressed very carefully.

PinkFairyDust · 18/10/2012 23:10

From very very little you have said same behaviour from ex charge who has aspergers (the whole knife episode sounds the same) (not saying he does have it)

But going on the basis of he sounds like ex charge - therefore if you took some thing from him without telling him it would make things so so so much worse.

Can you, partner and him sit down and try and discuss his behaviour? If he is threatening knifes you don't know what he could do when he realises you sold HIS stuff (and that's how alot of teenagers think, it's thier stuff so you can't sell it take it etc let alone child with aspergers)

TapirBackRider · 18/10/2012 23:44

Have messaged you OP

joanofarchitrave · 18/10/2012 23:50

He can bloody scrub floors for it. Get him the hardest job you can find, working every Saturday or at least two evenings a week?

MTBMummy · 19/10/2012 09:03

OP - that sounds like a pretty crap situation, personally I'd take the advice of others and tell him you're selling his stuff to pay back the fine or he can have the choice of doing chores to pay you back (think scrubbing the toilet, or any other tasks you really dislike)

At 15 he really needs to start taking responsibility for his actions.

Maybe you can try discussing lessening his pay back terms if he agrees to sit through an appointment re his suspected aspergers?

Sorry just an idea...

HeinousHecate · 19/10/2012 09:04

I would say if he's old enough to take a train by himself, he is old enough to take the consequences for dodging a fare.

so I'd make him pay it.

lottiegarbanzo · 19/10/2012 09:12

Exactly Hecate. He is morally responsible and the age of criminal responsibility is 10 or 12. He may not have an income but if he did something more serious he, not you, could be imprisoned.

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