Which toilets a F to M transgender student should use

[WongaDotMom]

DH teaches at an FE college. One of his new students this year is transgender (female to male)
All staff and students are aware of his transgender status. (Not sure about any ops or medications, will ask DH when he gets home)

The student wishes to use the male toilets. Staff had a meeting regarding this issue, trying to avoid any issues with the male students using the toilets at the same time, and decided that the student should NOT use the male toilets, but allocated him use of the disabled toilet instead.

He was offended by this suggestion, as he does not have a disability, and is taking a stance by walking the 10 minute journey to public toilets in town where he can use the male facilities without discrimination.

I think the college should allow him use of the male facilities, DH disagrees, so I am putting it out for the MN jury to decide.

Who is BU?

Self cleaning toilet seats. They have them in Germany. Then is unisex OK?

The law on this isn't quite as clear cut as most of you imagine. This is from the EHRC's advice booklet, What Equality Law Means for Your Business:

Access to changing rooms and other facilities ...
... You must also avoid discriminating against transsexual people. Treat a transsexual person as belonging to the sex in which the transsexual person presents (as opposed to the physical sex they were born with) unless you can objectively justify treating them differently.

For example:
A clothes shop has separate changing areas for men and for women with individual cubicles. The shop concludes it would not be appropriate or necessary to exclude a transsexual woman from the female changing room as the privacy and decency of all users can be assured by the provision of the separate cubicles.

Where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from someone of their preferred gender, they should normally be treated according to their acquired gender unless there are strong reasons not to do so.

Where someone has a gender recognition certificate they should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes.

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While all the trans people I know are thoroughly reasonable people, a tiny few 'transactivists' are not and I am glad there is a tiny bit of leeway in this. The legislation as it stands allows anybody to claim they are trans without planning surgery or taking hormones. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for women to object to someone using their facilities who is indistinguishable in any way from a man, isn't undergoing treatment, doesn't intend to undergo treatment, but says he is MtF trans.

The downside is that it rests on subjective judgement. Personally I have never met a trans person who is visually indistinguishable from their preferred gender. Especially for those transitioning late in life, it seems deeply unfair to be judged on how well they 'pass'.

Long term, the way to go is clearly unisex toilets. These need planning properly if they are to be safe, private and dignified for all to use.

He's a he so male toilets of course!

"Personally I have never met a trans person who is visually indistinguishable from their preferred gender" Plenty

How would you know you if they were indistinguishable from their preferred gender? Do you think the indistinguishable trans people wear badges? You may have met thousands but couldn't tell.

She He This person should be allowed to use the Gents.

He She They will need to learn not to look at other peoples' tackle at the urinal in any case.

Male toilets.

Why on earth should they need to discuss this? Male toilets have cubicles. Let him use these! Jeez.......

Not read whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned up thread. YABVVVVU and your dh is being very unprofessional in letting you put this on an internet forum. What ever happened to student confidentiality? Your DH should not be discussing toilet arrangements with you regarding this student, and as for asking him about this students ops/meds when he gets home and then posting on a forum!!!

Please, please, please ask this in FWR so I can watch the explosion.

Where should m/F transsexual go to the loo, by the way?

I'd post in legal, as I don't know, but since trans people have been permitted to marry in the new gender way before civil partnerships came in, and the EU protected transgender rights under sex discrimination laws back then... refusing to acknowledge the new gender may be discriminatory. And open the college to a claim for compensation.

Just a thought.

Cannot imagine why someone should be barred from using the loos in their new gender. Also agree that it's not on to discuss this on open forum when it really is none of your or our beeswax.

Poor guy. As if he isn't dealing with enough.

I would say male. Since he identifies as a male (and especially as he isn't telling people he was previously a female) surely it would seem strange for him not to use them?

The only problem I can think of is if the cubicle isn't free/usable for some reason and somebody asks why he won't just use a urinal. But I'm sure he'd have a plan for that situation.

Aren't his friends going to think it's odd if he a) says he's not allowed in the loos and b) keeps nipping off to the town centre though?

some of the responses on this thread make me utterly sick. You cannot have any idea what a Trans person has to go through to get accepted/recognised in a respectful way. Do you know what the suicide rate is? Thirty three fucking per cent.
My partner is currently undergoing treatment and quite frankly I understand completely why so many people just kill themselves. Because living in this intolerant society of ours is just too painful.

Teedeeuk, I have nothing but theoretical experience of this (plus a couple of genderqueer friends) but I agree.

People seem to be labouring under the wholesale misapprehension that transitioning is some kind of lifestyle choice.

Transgendered individuals are told by their doctors that they must live as a person of the gender that they identify with. This includes dressing accordingly, using the proper toilet, etc. They have to do this for a year and if they do not meet the doctor's expectations then they do not qualify for the operation. Therefore transgendered individuals are forced to cope with mockery, physical and even sexual assualt, derision, being spat on, intimidated, ousted out of their homes...I know someone in this situation and that is all I will say.

Yes, he should be allowed to use the male toilets. He is male. End of story.

And no, your husband should not have disclosed this information. It isn't something that you pass on or debate with family! It is a confidential matter relating to a student.

Sorry to be thick, but didn't he say that using the male toilets would out him? Fair enough he doesn't want to use the female toilets (and why would someone ptesenting as a male use them, as that would out them too) . But then that only leaves the disabled it unisex ones, and the college doesn't have unisex ones...

So by his own choice he can only use the disabled ones. Although I agree they can't MAKE him. Iyswim?

But he should be allowed to use the male ones if he wanted to.

MrsTerryPratchett self cleaning toilets as in Germany would definitely make unisex toilets ok!

I mean,at home the bathroom is unisex...but that is cleaned often. I refuse to believe public toilets are cleaned every hour! Self cleaning would make everyone happy.